Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has no origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Thanks, Kevin
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I also assumed that, and was quite concerned.
On Jan 16, 2019, at 1:22 AM, Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has no origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Thanks, Kevin
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has no origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for his own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the WMF or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions are an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I'll admit I was initially deceived by his initial message.
On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:05 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for his own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the WMF or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions are an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, I am troubled with the ease doubt is raised about people contributing to this mailing list/ our community/ our projects. This is a mailing list that has the option of moderation. That is already in itself a sure way of driving people away. However, it is not the same as going whole hog and ban like it is proposed.
Our community needs to have a plurality of points of view and for me this is yet another moment where the view point of others is not respected, a moment where we are way too aggressive in ostracising someone who has been with us for a long time. I have seen on multiple occasions how people with a long track record become lost to us. All because of what, the greater good?
Sad indeed. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 19:05, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for his own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the WMF or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions are an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's
clear
here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I am troubled with the ease doubt is raised about people contributing to this mailing list/ our community/ our projects. This is a mailing list that has the option of moderation. That is already in itself a sure way of driving people away. However, it is not the same as going whole hog and ban like it is proposed.
If your concern is about ensuring a wide range of voices, I would note that most people we "lose" from this list are not those who are moderated out of existence. Rather, they unsubscribe because they are frustrated about the tone or the behavior of other participants. As for what Risker said, I would not describe it as "ease." She has politely raised this after many years of James behaving in the same way. This list has generally tolerated sharply different viewpoints, and it should continue to do so, even though it will discourage some people from participating. But we should not have to put up with this sort of "I didn't hear that" behavior (if you'll forgive my using English Wikipedia jargon).
Emufarmers
Are those objecting to discussion of specific choices of advocacy areas of the Foundation aware that the Movement Strategy staff have seated an Advocacy Working Group and begun discussions with it focusing on "public policies and agendas to define areas where active advocacy and political engagement supports our mission and our strategic direction"? The rationale for that Working Group leaves no question that scope of advocacy efforts is a central topic of their discussion: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_...
Here are the top questions staff has posed to that Working Group so far:
What policy areas do we want to prioritize on our way to becoming the essential infrastructure for free knowledge? Where do we have to align with the broader global movement? What policy changes are necessary to achieve our strategic vision? What are areas where the movement has an opportunity to make change? What is the most effective way to promote public policy that advances our goals? What kind of legal, public policy and activist capacities do we need within movement organizations and communities, and how can we build them?
Moreover, such questions are clearly "Organizational issues of the Wikimedia Foundation" and as such are strictly on topic according to the wikimedia-l charter.
Using polls to settle controversial questions is so established that it is part of literally every legislature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Previous_question
Lane Rasberry wrote:
We do not have community capacity to endlessly complete surveys, and I would like survey moderation.
The survey and all its questions are completely optional, and I can see from the bitly statistics many more people viewed it than submitted it; I'm sure nobody felt obligated to complete it. The research guidelines do not appear to apply to studies of populations including the Foundation staff and contractors, as far as I can tell, because they only mention project contributors and readers as subjects. And, "Most research is conducted independently, without knowledge by or approval from the Wikimedia Foundation," per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:FAQ#Does_my_project_need_approval
Amir Sarabadani wrote:
You just disclosed results of the survey before it ends, meaning people who fill out the survey are biased on what majority thinks and vote under peer pressure.
There was more peer pressure in the opposite direction prior to the disclosure. The results have always been open to anyone who submits the form, and all the questions are optional. It was not intended to be a scientifically accurate poll. There was a discussion of countering self-selection bias in the Research Showcase today. The only way to reliably counter self-selection bias is to secure agreement to answer questions from randomly selected members of the subject populations before they are posed to the respondents. I would love to see such a study.
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far. Why are these questions so offensive to the vocal minority who have demanded that they not be discussed? Many nonprofit organizations depending on volunteer labor advocates for social changes in support of those volunteers, including by lobbying.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 10:05 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for his own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the WMF or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions are an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's clear here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Presumably a large majority of people didn't bother to respond to the survey.
If you want to continue running surveys pushing your personal agenda until everyone except your fan-club ignores you and you get the results you want, I can't stop you, I can merely castigate you and recommend that the Foundation ignore you.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 12:48 PM James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far. Why are these questions so offensive to the vocal minority who have demanded that they not be discussed? Many nonprofit organizations depending on volunteer labor advocates for social changes in support of those volunteers, including by lobbying.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 10:05 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for
his
own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the
WMF
or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions
are
an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's
clear
here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and
has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) <djgwiki@gmail.com
wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little
to
do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com
wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 18:27, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias
Risker raises the point of moderating research requests. I do not want to comment on this survey in particular, but in general, many researchers target the wiki community continually. We do not have community capacity to endlessly complete surveys, and I would like survey moderation.
Access to the wiki community is a privilege because we all pay a cost when anyone makes a request for time, attention, and labor. Wiki community time is not an unlimited free asset for the world to solicit.
Here is a live discussion about this centered on something I wrote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)#Background
here it is archived. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)...
James, I appreciate your interest in research. I do wish you would register your research and conform to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:New_project but currently, we have no wiki community rules that say for people to register research. If anyone is upset about your research, then I wish that the response to be to set general policy and practices for the many surveyors and researchers seeking labor from Wiki community spaces and not only look at this one channel, and this one survey.
thanks -
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far. Why are these questions so offensive to the vocal minority who have demanded that they not be discussed? Many nonprofit organizations depending on volunteer labor advocates for social changes in support of those volunteers, including by lobbying.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 10:05 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for
his
own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the
WMF
or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions
are
an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's
clear
here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and
has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) <djgwiki@gmail.com
wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little
to
do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com
wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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+1 to what Lane says.
I will not comment here on whether or not a specific user should be removed from the list, but I do feel that a survey like this one should not be sent to this list, especially from only one person without any apparent peer vetting etc. I would generally support considered actions from list moderators to reduce the number of notifications like this one.
-Pete
--
Pete Forsyth
[[User:Peteforsyth]] on meta etc.
On 1/16/19 11:04 AM, Lane Rasberry wrote:
Risker raises the point of moderating research requests. I do not want to comment on this survey in particular, but in general, many researchers target the wiki community continually. We do not have community capacity to endlessly complete surveys, and I would like survey moderation.
Access to the wiki community is a privilege because we all pay a cost when anyone makes a request for time, attention, and labor. Wiki community time is not an unlimited free asset for the world to solicit.
Here is a live discussion about this centered on something I wrote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)#Background
here it is archived. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)...
James, I appreciate your interest in research. I do wish you would register your research and conform to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:New_project but currently, we have no wiki community rules that say for people to register research. If anyone is upset about your research, then I wish that the response to be to set general policy and practices for the many surveyors and researchers seeking labor from Wiki community spaces and not only look at this one channel, and this one survey.
thanks -
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far. Why are these questions so offensive to the vocal minority who have demanded that they not be discussed? Many nonprofit organizations depending on volunteer labor advocates for social changes in support of those volunteers, including by lobbying.
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 10:05 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I regret to say that I feel James has abused this forum once again for
his
own personal agenda, much of which is unrelated even indirectly to the
WMF
or the Wikimedia movement. Further, I feel that he has done so in a way that is deceptive to members of this mailing list, and that his actions
are
an abuse of the trust of the members of this mailing list.
Generally speaking, I'm pretty tolerant of people bringing different perspectives and ideas to this mailing list; however, I believe this is a step too far for someone who has been asked in the past on multiple occasions to stay on topic. I am not sure that James needs to remain a contributor to this list.
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 11:56, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 1:23 AM Kevin Payravi kevinpayravi@gmail.com wrote:
I've heard confusion from a couple folks and want to make sure it's
clear
here that this survey is coming from you as an individual, Jim, and
has
no
origination or coordination with the Foundation - correct?
Yes, the survey is just from me, not the Foundation. I'm trying to encourage the Executive Director to bring back the "Letter to Donors" which was discontinued for reasons unknown, but not the explanation given to me at the time, that it was forbidden by law:
https://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/998272655995240449 https://twitter.com/SuePGardner/status/998302792946102273
On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 3:44 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) <djgwiki@gmail.com wrote:
... (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little
to
do with the Foundation's mission.
That is precisely the matter of opinion which the survey measures. The idea that the abundance of contributors would not increase under the proposals is clearly not shared by most, and whether that means contributors would therefore be "empowered" by them is subjective.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019, 8:21 PM James Salsman <jsalsman@gmail.com
wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
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On Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 19:48 James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
The "agenda" is shared by a majority of the survey respondents so far.
You just disclosed results of the survey before it ends, meaning people who fill out the survey are biased on what majority thinks and vote under peer pressure. Scientificly speaking, It's not a blind survey anymore. Thus the final result of this survey is unusable and worthless.
Now let's get back to the question that how someone who doesn't know much about research methodology wastes people's time and attention...
James,
As is fairly typical with your proposals, most of the proposals in the survey (free healthcare, universal basic income, etc.) have very little to do with the Foundation's mission. If you're going to do a survey, I suggest actually connecting it to the Foundation's mission, although sadly it seems that suggestions like this fall on deaf ears.
Dan
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 02:21, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Happy 18th birthday to Wikipedia!
What does it mean for the Wikimedia Foundation to empower contributors? Please share your opinion of what the Wikimedia Foundation's mission statement means when it describes empowering people to collect and develop educational content:
The survey results are summarized after form submission.
Best regards, Jim Salsman
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