Anthony, two points: 1. Billinghurst is a very long-serving community member, and has always in my experience been happy to talk things through. I'd urge you just to talk with him directly. 2. Tension is high right now. If we're irritating each other more than usual, keep that in mind...it may be a factor. -Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]] On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Anthony Cole &lt;ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: here. I been _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

You are not the only one who is told that dissent is not appreciated. It is ironic that when openness and shared values are considered, these same values are swept under the rug when people are not in line with "common" thought. Apparently thoughts are not so common and certainly not universally shared. When community degenerates in universal enforced thought, are we still a community?

I am totally with Benjamin on this. On Tue, Feb 23, 2016, Oliver Keyes &lt;ironholds(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: That is an odd way to dismiss any counter-argument - it is going to piss you or others off? You are the only staff member so far objecting to any dissenting view, existentially. I'm sure you would prefer no dissent should exist at all because you are having a miserable time, just 100 people piling on one? I see the conversation heavily leaning in one direction - against Lila. She is overwhelmingly being blamed, accused and rebutted by just about every member on this list - in unofficial and official channels. This includes the staff, community members and even past board members. Anything short of calling her literally the worst or comparison her to lady hitler will not be moving things any further than they are. A few staff members like Brion, expressed dissent to Lila's assertion, but wonderfully well. They offered counter-arguments, and provided context we all needed. Dissent is necessary, it moves the conversation along. You are in essence doing what your senior management was accused of, silencing criticism internally because you are having a rough time. I'm sure it doesn't feel nice. Regards Theo PS Anthony, you shouldn't have sent a private email to the list. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

I'm listening to this, and thank you all. I'll try to be less ... whatever that is I'm being. I do know what you mean, and I'll tone it down. Oliver, I had/have no intention of minimising the hurt felt by those involved. I apologise if I gave that impression. But some of those hurt people have been dishing out - en masse - a world of pain, themselves. I understand the dynamic at play here. In my defence - though I know it's no justification - I'm deeply affronted by what's been happening here and, especially, on WW. I see its provenance - the almost inevitability of it, given a hands-off (read that as slow, ineffectual, irresponsible, mostly stupid and arrogant) board. But still, this has been just awful to watch, and the behaviour of some here and elsewhere has been truly, truly trashy. I shall try to improve my game. PS: That's the first time I've ever made public a private email. Literally. Ever. I assume it will be the last. That kind of thing, bullying people into silence, quietly, off-list, is IMNSHO, poor behaviour, billinghurst. Anthony Cole On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Benjamin Lees &lt;emufarmers(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>