I've just received this from someone called billinghurst: "Please stop this rebuttal of people's statements. Their opinions are as valuable, if not more valuable than yours as statements. Your name is appearing too often IMNSHO." I thought I was bringing a sorely under-represented perspective to the ED discussion on this list and wasn't aware I'd said or done anything inappropriate here. I sincerely apologise if I have, but I'll need a bit more guidance if that's the case. I see a lot of rebutting going on here. I thought civil rebuttal was how rational argument progressed. But I've been wrong before. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: billinghurst &lt;billinghurstwiki(a)gmail.com&gt; Date: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 4:04 AM Subject: Shared list To: ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com Please stop this rebuttal of people's statements. Their opinions are as valuable, if not more valuable than yours as statements. Your name is appearing too often IMNSHO. - b _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Anthony, two points: 1. Billinghurst is a very long-serving community member, and has always in my experience been happy to talk things through. I'd urge you just to talk with him directly. 2. Tension is high right now. If we're irritating each other more than usual, keep that in mind...it may be a factor. -Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]] On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Anthony Cole &lt;ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: here. I been _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Someone complained to you off-list about the amount you're posting to the list. You immediately forwarded his email to the list. Is this the best approach? On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:13 AM, Anthony Cole &lt;ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Well, Oliver Keyes said, 3 days ago: For my part, I think it's inappropriate to, for example, take someone's statement: "I restrained from expressing publicly any issues I might have with your own performance; I would love you to not spread covert allegations on my performace and professional attitude" and proceed to "it is used as proof she's "literally Hitler"." My guidance would be to think carefully about the way you're responding to others and whether you would like to be responded to in that way. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 6:31 AM, Gerard Meijssen &lt;gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Gerard, you're only one, to my knowledge, always fulfilling the soft quota of 30 emails per month, +1 or 2 message. In February you're already at 31 [1].

I am totally with Benjamin on this. On Tue, Feb 23, 2016, Oliver Keyes &lt;ironholds(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: That is an odd way to dismiss any counter-argument - it is going to piss you or others off? You are the only staff member so far objecting to any dissenting view, existentially. I'm sure you would prefer no dissent should exist at all because you are having a miserable time, just 100 people piling on one? I see the conversation heavily leaning in one direction - against Lila. She is overwhelmingly being blamed, accused and rebutted by just about every member on this list - in unofficial and official channels. This includes the staff, community members and even past board members. Anything short of calling her literally the worst or comparison her to lady hitler will not be moving things any further than they are. A few staff members like Brion, expressed dissent to Lila's assertion, but wonderfully well. They offered counter-arguments, and provided context we all needed. Dissent is necessary, it moves the conversation along. You are in essence doing what your senior management was accused of, silencing criticism internally because you are having a rough time. I'm sure it doesn't feel nice. Regards Theo PS Anthony, you shouldn't have sent a private email to the list. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

I am totally with Benjamin on this. On Tue, Feb 23, 2016, Oliver Keyes &lt;ironholds(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: That is an odd way to dismiss any counter-argument - it is going to piss you or others off? You are the only staff member so far objecting to any dissenting view, existentially. I'm sure you would prefer no dissent should exist at all because you are having a miserable time, just 100 people piling on one? I see the conversation heavily leaning in one direction - against Lila. She is overwhelmingly being blamed, accused and rebutted by just about every member on this list - in unofficial and official channels. This includes the staff, community members and even past board members. Anything short of calling her literally the worst or comparison her to lady hitler will not be moving things any further than they are. A few staff members like Brion, expressed dissent to Lila's assertion, but wonderfully well. They offered counter-arguments, and provided context we all needed. Dissent is necessary, it moves the conversation along. You are in essence doing what your senior management was accused of, silencing criticism internally because you are having a rough time. I'm sure it doesn't feel nice.

Regards Theo PS Anthony, you shouldn't have sent a private email to the list. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>