Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics: - External perception of the movement - Recommendations to the WMF - Governance recommendations for the movement - Community model for affiliates - How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
I'd be interested in hearing about perceptions of the movement.
On Feb 17, 2019, at 3:35 PM, David Cuenca Tudela dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I'm interested.
I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there isn't, is love to hear the rest.
Thanks!
בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Amir,
*How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international * Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge that exists in other parts of the world. The only way to break this cycle of cultural colonisation would be to actually research the needs of other communities, and how we can create a project that fits those needs. It is naive to expect that one tool can fit all, and while Wikipedia et al have covered many important niches, it is well possible that there are other elements that we are not seeing because we are not explaining our projects to people who could give us ideas about how to go further. There is also a lot of knowledge that could be interesting to collect, but does not fit in any of our projects yet.
In that regard, thanks to the input of the participants, and my own experience, I came up with some ideas that I would like to present in Wikimania if I am given the opportunity.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 6:49 AM Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
I'm interested.
I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there isn't, is love to hear the rest.
Thanks!
בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Thank you for this.
Could you elaborate on the definition of knowledge, please?
This is something I've long been interested in.
On Feb 18, 2019, at 3:04 AM, David Cuenca Tudela dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Amir,
*How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international * Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge that exists in other parts of the world. The only way to break this cycle of cultural colonisation would be to actually research the needs of other communities, and how we can create a project that fits those needs. It is naive to expect that one tool can fit all, and while Wikipedia et al have covered many important niches, it is well possible that there are other elements that we are not seeing because we are not explaining our projects to people who could give us ideas about how to go further. There is also a lot of knowledge that could be interesting to collect, but does not fit in any of our projects yet.
In that regard, thanks to the input of the participants, and my own experience, I came up with some ideas that I would like to present in Wikimania if I am given the opportunity.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 6:49 AM Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
I'm interested.
I'm especially interested in any recommendation that is even remotely related to how can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international, and it sounds like there could be something about it there, but even if there isn't, is love to hear the rest.
Thanks!
בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 01:36, מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On 18/02/2019 11:04, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge that exists in other parts of the world.
This sounds intriguing. Can you expand on it?
Hi Mark, Benjamin and me we had a Skype conversation about this topic. Maybe he can elaborate with his insights? Regards Micru
On Thu, 21 Feb 2019, 19:11 Mark Rousell, mark.rousell@signal100.com wrote:
On 18/02/2019 11:04, David Cuenca Tudela wrote:
the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with
knowledge
that exists in other parts of the world.
This sounds intriguing. Can you expand on it?
-- Mark Rousell
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בתאריך יום ב׳, 18 בפבר׳ 2019, 13:04, מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hi Amir,
*How can the Wikimedia movement be more truly international * Participants reported that the current definition of knowledge by Wikimedia projects is narrow-minded and does not fit the relationship with knowledge that exists in other parts of the world.
What is our definition of knowledge?
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
What is our definition of knowledge?
In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
Regards, Micru
בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
What is our definition of knowledge?
In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)
Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our definition of knowledge is?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
That would be a fair operational definition in our context, but it does not predict well for all instances. Cheers Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni Sent: 22 February 2019 10:39 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives
בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
What is our definition of knowledge?
In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)
Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our definition of knowledge is?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Peter,
Could you please give an example of the instances that it wouldn't predict well?
Regards, Micru
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 10:44 Peter Southwood, peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
That would be a fair operational definition in our context, but it does not predict well for all instances. Cheers Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni Sent: 22 February 2019 10:39 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives
בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, <
amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
What is our definition of knowledge?
In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)
Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our definition of knowledge is?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
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Those instances where we don’t know yet whether the information would be acceptable in any of our projects, as the decision is generally made by consensus, and consensus can change and can vary between projects. Edge cases are not easily predictable. Also it is possible that new projects may accept information unsuitable for existing projects. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of David Cuenca Tudela Sent: 22 February 2019 12:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives
Hi Peter,
Could you please give an example of the instances that it wouldn't predict well?
Regards, Micru
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 10:44 Peter Southwood, peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
That would be a fair operational definition in our context, but it does not predict well for all instances. Cheers Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni Sent: 22 February 2019 10:39 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives
בתאריך יום ו׳, 22 בפבר׳ 2019 ב-10:30 מאת David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2019, 08:27 Amir E. Aharoni, <
amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
What is our definition of knowledge?
In my opinion, the informal definition would be: all the information that the Wikimedia community allows into their projects.
OK, that makes sense. It can even be formal :)
Do the people to whom you speak have the same understanding of what our definition of knowledge is?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com
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Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/%C2%A0%D0%A2%D0%B5%D0%BB.+79274158066%C2%A0/ skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Governance recommendation * I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has been always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was mostly about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing for her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision by consent, and what does that mean.
What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on how the group can operate.
Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that can drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included and supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration, which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should celebrate when we reach one.
Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of the Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this? Later it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist. I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and worth to notice e.g. in strategic discussions. Kind regards Ziko
Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Governance recommendation * I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has been always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was mostly about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing for her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision by consent, and what does that mean.
What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on how the group can operate.
Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that can drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included and supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration, which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should celebrate when we reach one.
Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of the Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for
the
movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066
/
skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
from
different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in
a
"world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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@Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.
@Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place, please go ahead and let me know.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this? Later it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist. I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and worth to notice e.g. in strategic discussions. Kind regards Ziko
Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Governance recommendation * I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
been
always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
mostly
about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing
for
her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision
by
consent, and what does that mean.
What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on how the group can operate.
Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that
can
drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included
and
supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration, which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should celebrate when we reach one.
Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of
the
Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for
the
movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
Тел.+79274158066
/
skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
from
different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers
in
a
"world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about
the
topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- Etiamsi omnes, ego non _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Micru,
How about documenting your insights on here. I know a number of people in the Roles & Responsibilities group have been reading with interest, thank you very much for sharing.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Wor...
Chris
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 4:23 PM David Cuenca Tudela dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
@Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.
@Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place, please go ahead and let me know.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this?
Later
it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist. I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and
worth
to notice e.g. in strategic discussions. Kind regards Ziko
Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Governance recommendation * I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition
Network
that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
been
always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels
that
she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
mostly
about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing
for
her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision
by
consent, and what does that mean.
What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections
are
seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact
on
how the group can operate.
Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for
the
group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that
can
drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included
and
supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration, which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should celebrate when we reach one.
Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of
the
Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also
a
software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation
for
the
movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
Тел.+79274158066
/
skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
from
different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers
in
a
"world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement
in
general, with the intention that participants would learn from
our
movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also
Open
Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about
the
topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm
ok
keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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@Benjamin: I tried to put it into words, but I have realized that what I have to say doesn't fit well into a short text. If you are really interested, send me an email with your availability and we can have a video call about it.
@Chris: Thanks for the recommendation, but I don't feel like pasting it there without proper context, and it is not my priority right now. If you or any of them want more details they can contact me any time.
Regards, Micru
On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 12:08 PM Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Micru,
How about documenting your insights on here. I know a number of people in the Roles & Responsibilities group have been reading with interest, thank you very much for sharing.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Wor...
Chris
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 4:23 PM David Cuenca Tudela dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
@Benjamin: It is already there, as answer to Farkhad.
@Ziko: I have no idea where to store this. If you find a suitable place, please go ahead and let me know.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this?
Later
it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist. I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and
worth
to notice e.g. in strategic discussions. Kind regards Ziko
Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela < dacuetu@gmail.com>:
Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Governance recommendation * I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition
Network
that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has
been
always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels
that
she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was
mostly
about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite
disappointing
for
her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of
decision
by
consent, and what does that mean.
What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or
the
method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand
the
meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections
are
seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have
been
properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants
to
address their own personal issues as well, because they have an
impact
on
how the group can operate.
Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for
the
group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and
that
can
drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more
included
and
supported by the organisation. There is also an element of
celebration,
which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we
should
celebrate when we reach one.
Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members
of
the
Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at
the
Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is
also
a
software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation
for
the
movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/
Тел.+79274158066
/
skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com: > Hello, > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where
people
from
> different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four
speakers
in
a
> "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia
movement
in
> general, with the intention that participants would learn from
our
> movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also
Open
> Space sessions. > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any
of
these
topics: > - External perception of the movement > - Recommendations to the WMF > - Governance recommendations for the movement > - Community model for affiliates > - How to increase diversity > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only
about
the
> topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest,
I'm
ok
> keeping it to myself. > > Regards, > Micru > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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Hi Bodhisattwa,
*Community model of affiliates * Many participants reported difficulties building trust with volunteers. It is very easy to lose the volunteer appeal if the organisation is not conscious about their needs, and there is no active communication. I reported the case of Amical, which is the one that I know well, and it is the only model that I trust.
The model of Amical is based on friendship. Volunteers and members of the organisation are bound by the mission, but that doesn't mean that it is the only kind of connection that it should exist between them. For organizations that are geographically close, the ideal scenario is to have some kind of mutual personal understanding and not focus only on the projects. Wikimedians can be interesting people to get to know better so, why not organize events where people just talk or have fun together without editing anything?
When there is a personal relationship, it becomes easier to modulate frustrations and deal with them more effectively than through online channels. Written communication is deprived of the human element, and it should be used as little as possible.
What is important to know is that our communities are open systems, however in order to enter them, one must be ready to be changed by them, and the organisation should be open to be changed by new members. This should happen at different levels, but of course, it should be possible for anyone to enter an organization informally, and over time reach the core.
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Micru,
I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for the movement and community model of affiliates.
Regards, Bodhisattwa
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Farkhad,
*External perception of the movement* The Wikimedia movement is seen as a very complex entity. Most participants knew about Wikipedia, not so many about the other projects. Even for those who knew Wikipedia, it was not so clear how decisions are taken or what is allowed to do. I explained the concept that the more you work with any of the projects the more you will find out about its inner processes, or other people will make you aware of them (because you will do something wrong or you will try to find out or "invent" how to do something). Participants did not understand what are the roles that are available for them, or what to do in them, they felt that with so much freedom to do anything, they were incapable of participating.
In a way they were marveled that just by having guidelines created and enforced by the community, it is enough to have a working project without any visible leadership. Leadership does exist, but it is exercised in different ways (for instance, by participating in conversations about policy, behaviour, or strategy). Another thing that surprised participants, is that you can do anything that you want, that there are no restrictions other than your own interest to do something and respecting the policies.
Participants did not know about the WMF, and did not know where the fundraising money goes. They did not understand how the community can participate in allocating the resources. I told them the my opinion, that the WMF still hasn't learned how to share its leadership together with the community and that they are operating as a company, which alienates me because they are not respecting the spirit of the projects.
Also it was unclear to them how to interact with the community, affiliates or the Foundation. They were not certain that they would be able to find the right person or the right place to ask questions. It that regard they saw the movement as a walled garden that can be contemplated from outside, but it is very restricted to participate in. Some participants they mentioned that Wikimedia is a faceless project, that we are very good at presenting the faces of many important people, but that we fail miserably at presenting our own.
A participant suggested to use the yellow banner to recruit new people instead of using it only to raise money. The reason being that many people would be interested in participating if they were asked to and if they were shown how to (preferably with videos recorded by Wikimedians explaining what they do).
Regards, Micru
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 7:44 AM Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin < frhd@yandex.com> wrote:
Micru, I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the movement".part of your insights. Thanks.
from Russia with love, farhad https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" dacuetu@gmail.com:
Hello,
Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people from different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat, democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in a "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in general, with the intention that participants would learn from our movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open Space sessions.
If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of these
topics:
- External perception of the movement
- Recommendations to the WMF
- Governance recommendations for the movement
- Community model for affiliates
- How to increase diversity
There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok keeping it to myself.
Regards, Micru
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