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It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people feel about one of the following:
1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC) 2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC) 3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone possible!
- --
Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
- Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
- Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
- Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!
If you make the Friday one earlier, it becomes more inaccessible to people in Asia and Western Australia who will likely be sleeping through the Thursday one.
What about making both of them a couple of hours later?
Angela
I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would work fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds like a good time though.
2009/9/29 Angela beesley@gmail.com
- Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
- Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
- Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!
If you make the Friday one earlier, it becomes more inaccessible to people in Asia and Western Australia who will likely be sleeping through the Thursday one.
What about making both of them a couple of hours later?
Angela
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2009/9/29 effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com:
I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would work fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds like a good time though.
2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe, that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
on a friday? :S
2009/9/29 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com
2009/9/29 effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com:
I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would
work
fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds
like
a good time though.
2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe, that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe, that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the earlier time.
Angela
2009/9/29 Angela beesley@gmail.com:
2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe, that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the earlier time.
Yes, but 2130UTC was proposed as a good time for Europeans. The original time of 2230UTC is presumably better if Europeans aren't a factor.
Thomas Dalton wrote: Hmmm 22.30 UTC is a shitty time for people in Asia and Australia as well ... but why bother about them. It is all about Europeans and Americans isn't it?
W
2009/9/29 Angela beesley@gmail.com:
2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe, that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the earlier time.
Yes, but 2130UTC was proposed as a good time for Europeans. The original time of 2230UTC is presumably better if Europeans aren't a factor.
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Basically if there is room for two sets of office hours it should still be possible to please most of the world. There are times when Europe/Africa and the Americas overlap. And there are times when East Asia/Australia and the Americas overlap .... There are no hours that all 3 of these rough zones would overlap really and West Asia/Middle East would be a bit tricky to fit in with these zones.
Basically office hours for an Americas/East Asia/Australia zone would overlap best from 0300 to 0500 UTC (Evening Americas, Morning/afternoon East Asia/Australia and even west Asia could fit in) Office hours for an Americas/Europe zone could be something like 1900 UTC till 2100 UTC (Afternoon/morning Americas, Evening Europe) When you plan round and bout these hours most of the world would be satisfied and able to participate in either one or the other set of office hours!
W
I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would work fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds like a good time though.
2009/9/29 Angela beesley@gmail.com
- Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
- Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
- Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!
If you make the Friday one earlier, it becomes more inaccessible to people in Asia and Western Australia who will likely be sleeping through the Thursday one.
What about making both of them a couple of hours later?
Angela
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2009/9/30 Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th:
Basically if there is room for two sets of office hours it should still be possible to please most of the world. There are times when Europe/Africa and the Americas overlap. And there are times when East Asia/Australia and the Americas overlap .... There are no hours that all 3 of these rough zones would overlap really and West Asia/Middle East would be a bit tricky to fit in with these zones.
Basically office hours for an Americas/East Asia/Australia zone would overlap best from 0300 to 0500 UTC (Evening Americas, Morning/afternoon East Asia/Australia and even west Asia could fit in)
That's 8pm to 10pm in San Francisco (daylight saving time, 7pm to 9pm otherwise), I think this really needs to happen during business hours in SF, otherwise staff have to give up their free time for it. If they are willing to do that, then great, but we shouldn't expect them to.
Office hours for an Americas/Europe zone could be something like 1900 UTC till 2100 UTC (Afternoon/morning Americas, Evening Europe) When you plan round and bout these hours most of the world would be satisfied and able to participate in either one or the other set of office hours!
That ought to work fine.
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/9/30 Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th:
Basically if there is room for two sets of office hours it should still be possible to please most of the world. There are times when Europe/Africa and the Americas overlap. And there are times when East Asia/Australia and the Americas overlap .... There are no hours that all 3 of these rough zones would overlap really and West Asia/Middle East would be a bit tricky to fit in with these zones.
Basically office hours for an Americas/East Asia/Australia zone would overlap best from 0300 to 0500 UTC (Evening Americas, Morning/afternoon East Asia/Australia and even west Asia could fit in)
That's 8pm to 10pm in San Francisco (daylight saving time, 7pm to 9pm otherwise), I think this really needs to happen during business hours in SF, otherwise staff have to give up their free time for it. If they are willing to do that, then great, but we shouldn't expect them to.
That is true ... but it would be awfully nice if they would do ... maybe change their hours for those particular days (instead of 9 to 17 work from 14 to 22?) otherwise it would be difficult to fit Asia/Australia in in any schedule really. The other option would be something like 0200 utc (though very early for India) or 1400/1500 utc (but this would be very late for Japan and Australia/New Zealand).
Personally I would opt for 0200 utc then as that would squeeze by best I guess .....
I know I was being a tad aggressive but I get pretty upset when people plan things conveniently for the Europeans and Americans and forget that there are 3.5 billion people on other parts of the planet out there some of whom do participate .....
W
Really, this all feels very simple to me.
You take the earliest time in the morning and the latest time in the afternoon that people working in an office in San Francisco are will to accommodate. Will that satisfy everyone? No. However picking times at the start and the end of the business day is probably the most that it is reasonable to ask of the staff as an ongoing commitment.
-Robert Rohde
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/9/30 Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th:
Basically if there is room for two sets of office hours it should still be possible to please most of the world. There are times when Europe/Africa and the Americas overlap. And there are times when East Asia/Australia and the Americas overlap .... There are no hours that all 3 of these rough zones would overlap really and West Asia/Middle East would be a bit tricky to fit in with these zones.
Basically office hours for an Americas/East Asia/Australia zone would overlap best from 0300 to 0500 UTC (Evening Americas, Morning/afternoon East Asia/Australia and even west Asia could fit in)
That's 8pm to 10pm in San Francisco (daylight saving time, 7pm to 9pm otherwise), I think this really needs to happen during business hours in SF, otherwise staff have to give up their free time for it. If they are willing to do that, then great, but we shouldn't expect them to.
That is true ... but it would be awfully nice if they would do ... maybe change their hours for those particular days (instead of 9 to 17 work from 14 to 22?) otherwise it would be difficult to fit Asia/Australia in in any schedule really. The other option would be something like 0200 utc (though very early for India) or 1400/1500 utc (but this would be very late for Japan and Australia/New Zealand).
Personally I would opt for 0200 utc then as that would squeeze by best I guess .....
I know I was being a tad aggressive but I get pretty upset when people plan things conveniently for the Europeans and Americans and forget that there are 3.5 billion people on other parts of the planet out there some of whom do participate .....
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Best option would be to have two sets, one for Europe and one for the Americas.
________________________________ From: Cary Bass cary@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:38:12 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] Office hours
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It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people feel about one of the following:
1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC) 2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC) 3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone possible!
- --
Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......
W
Best option would be to have two sets, one for Europe and one for the Americas.
From: Cary Bass cary@wikimedia.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:38:12 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] Office hours
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people feel about one of the following:
- Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
- Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
- Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!
Cary Bass Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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2009/9/30 Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th:
There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......
I am well aware of the existence of Asia and Australia. I have been to several Asian countries - I definitely remember seeing people there. The time of 2130-2230 was proposed explicitly for the benefit of Europeans (see Cary's first email in this thread), so I pointed out that it actually doesn't work well for Europeans.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/30 Waerth waerth@asianet.co.th:
There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......
I am well aware of the existence of Asia and Australia. I have been to several Asian countries - I definitely remember seeing people there. The time of 2130-2230 was proposed explicitly for the benefit of Europeans (see Cary's first email in this thread), so I pointed out that it actually doesn't work well for Europeans.
I think it's fair to say that no matter what time is selected for anything then it is going to be inconvenient for some people - that's just a fact. Furthermore, what might be a good time of day or day of the week for one person will not be a good time of day/day of week for another person (even if they are in the same timezone). Live with it. I live in Australia and I've never been able to make it to an 'office hours' sometimes because it's in the middle of the night sometimes because I'm at work. But, that's my problem not the WMFs.
The WMF have already offered to do it at two timeslots and if these are sufficiently different from each other then that's about all that can be done. You're never going to be able to please everyone in this issue.
-Liam [[witty lama]]
wittylama.com/blog Peace, love & metadata
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On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 04:02, Liam Wyatt liamwyatt@gmail.com wrote:
The WMF have already offered to do it at two timeslots and if these are sufficiently different from each other then that's about all that can be done. You're never going to be able to please everyone in this issue.
Agreed, but having two slots which are convenient for noone does not really help :)
So I would suggest to have one slot convenient for Europeans/Africans, one slot convenient for Asia/Oceania. Any of both will be convenient for the US West Coast, which in turn should make it relatively OK for the US East Coast and South America.
I think it was along those lines that Angela said to move both times later.
Delphine
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