Hello all,
While Wikimedia Canada has been around in one stage of planning or another for a while, we've just created a mailing list for discussion.
Why now? I was listening to the archives of Wikipedia Weekly, and heard Delphine mention us, even though we've been so inactive in further planning. That, and a regional TV channel is planning a story on the chapter, even though we don't actually exist yet.
* Where's the list hosted? : http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-ca
* How can I post? : Once you join, email wikimedia-ca@lists.wikimedia.org
* Is it bilingual? : To be discussed. The Swiss mailing list is quatrolingual. but let's concentrate on discussing stuff in English first, as only two members of over 100 are unilingual Francophones.
* What use would I be? : Trust me, anyway you're willing to help with the chapter, we're willing to listen.
So please, even if you're not too sure what purpose chapters serve, join the mailing list. There's many benefits that could be reaped if we get this party started.
Nick Moreau/Zanimum
On 1/16/07, Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com wrote:
- Is it bilingual? : To be discussed. The Swiss mailing list is
quatrolingual. but let's concentrate on discussing stuff in English first, as only two members of over 100 are unilingual Francophones.
For the record: Although we certainly answer and take note of french, italian or rhaeto-romanic posts, we use English as "working language" for internal communication, be it the public wikimediach-l or internal private mailinglists. There are some german threads from time to time, but the mailinglist is de facto english.
Michael
Michael Bimmler schreef:
On 1/16/07, Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com wrote:
- Is it bilingual? : To be discussed. The Swiss mailing list is
quatrolingual. but let's concentrate on discussing stuff in English first, as only two members of over 100 are unilingual Francophones.
For the record: Although we certainly answer and take note of french, italian or rhaeto-romanic posts, we use English as "working language" for internal communication, be it the public wikimediach-l or internal private mailinglists. There are some german threads from time to time, but the mailinglist is de facto english.
Michael
Hoi, Western Abnaki http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:abe - Algonquin http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:alq - American Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ase - Assiniboine http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:asb - Atikamekw http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:atj - Babine http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bcr - Beaver http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bea - Bella Coola http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:blc - Blackfoot http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bla - Carrier http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crx - Southern Carrier http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:caf - Cayuga http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:cay - Chilcotin http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:clc - Chinook Wawa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:chn - Chipewyan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:chp - Comox http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:coo - Moose Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crm - Plains Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crk - Swampy Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:csw - Woods Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:cwd - Dakota http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:dak - Dogrib http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:dgr - Northern East Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crl - Southern East Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crj - English http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:eng - French http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:fra - Hutterite German http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:geh - Pennsylvania German http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pdc - Gitxsan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:git - Gwich'in http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:gwi - Northern Haida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hdn - Southern Haida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hax - Haisla http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:has - Halkomelem http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hur - Han http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:haa - Heiltsuk http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hei - Eastern Canadian Inuktitut http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ike - Western Canadian Inuktitut http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ikt - North Alaskan Inupiatun http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:esi - Kaska http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kkz - Kutenai http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kut - Kwakiutl http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kwk - Lakota http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:lkt - Lillooet http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:lil - Malecite-Passamaquoddy http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pqm - Maritime Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:nsr - Michif http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crg - Micmac http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:mic - Mohawk http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:moh - Montagnais http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:moe - Munsee http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:umu - Naskapi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:nsk - Nisga'a http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ncg - Nootka http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:noo - Central Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojc - Eastern Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojg - Northwestern Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojb - Severn Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojs - Western Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojw - Okanagan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:oka - Oneida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:one - Onondaga http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ono - Ottawa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:otw - Plautdietsch http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pdt - Potawatomi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pot - Quebec Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:fcs - Straits Salish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:str - Sarsi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:srs - Sechelt http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sec - Sekani http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sek - Seneca http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:see - Shuswap http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:shs - North Slavey http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:scs - South Slavey http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:xsl - Squamish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:squ - Stoney http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sto - Tagish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tgx - Tahltan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tht - Upper Tanana http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tau - Thompson http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:thp - Tlingit http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tli - Tsimshian http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tsi - Tuscarora http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tus - Northern Tutchone http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ttm - Southern Tutchone http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tce
These are the languages still spoken in Canada according to Ethnologue.. There is more then English French Italian and Rhaeto Romanic to this wonderful country. Thanks, GerardM
On 1/16/07, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Michael Bimmler schreef:
On 1/16/07, Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com wrote:
- Is it bilingual? : To be discussed. The Swiss mailing list is
quatrolingual. but let's concentrate on discussing stuff in English first, as only two members of over 100 are unilingual Francophones.
For the record: Although we certainly answer and take note of french, italian or rhaeto-romanic posts, we use English as "working language" for internal communication, be it the public wikimediach-l or internal private mailinglists. There are some german threads from time to time, but the mailinglist is de facto english.
Michael
Hoi, Western Abnaki http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:abe - Algonquin http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:alq - American Sign Language [...]
These are the languages still spoken in Canada according to Ethnologue.. There is more then English French Italian and Rhaeto Romanic to this wonderful country.
I think he was talking about the Swiss list...
Alfio
Englisch: http://www.wikiseek.com/index.php
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chip.de%2Fnews%2Fc1...
Original: http://www.chip.de/news/c1_news_23826563.html
Plugin: http://www.wikiseek.com/tools/search_plugin
WikiSeek: Erweiterte Wikipedia-Suchmachine
WikiSeek: Sucht in Wikipedia und verlinkten Seiten
Das Startup-Unternehmen SearchMe hat WikiSeek (wikiseek.com) als Beta-Version gestartet. Dabei handelt es sich um eine Internet-Suchmaschine, die Wikipedia und mit dem Online-Lexikon verlinkte Webseiten durchsucht.
Die Suchergebnisse enthalten Tags, die Informationen der unterschiedlichen Wikipedia-Kategorien tragen. Dadurch soll der Nutzer schneller an seine Suchergebnisse kommen.
Zudem kann der Nutzer die Suchmaschine in den Firefox ab Version 1.5 sowie Internet Explorer 7 per Mausklick auf "Install the Plug-in" einbinden. Das entsprechende Plug-in steht unter http://www.wikiseek.com/tools/search_plugin zur Verfügung.
The majority of the revenue generated by Wikiseek advertising is donated to the Wikimedia Foundation.
Earn money for Wikimedia Foundation: Promote Wikiseek
About Wikiseek The contents of Wikiseek are restricted to Wikipedia pages and only those sites which are referenced within Wikipedia, making it an authoritative source of information less subject to spam and SEO schemes.
Wikiseek utilizes Searchme's category refinement technology, providing suggested search refinements based on user tagging and categorization within Wikipedia, making results more relevant than conventional search engines.
http://wikiseek.wikia.com/wiki/Wikiseek_Community_Wiki
Hi, I like the idea of wikiseek, to index only wikipedia content and the urls edited in wikipedia as weblinks.
This was as well the concept develped here on the net. So it is a "w+1" hop" concept.
Contra: The problem is, - that the database is still not open (where to download?) - the search box of wikipedia already is doing the function - it is a advertising spin-off of wikipedia ?, which is introducing advertising through the backdoor into wikipedia. - Is this a Jimmy engine ? or just hosted at wikipedia? - quote:, "of course i am sad that it is a company rather than an open source project" - so the spin-of is taking a distance to the open source approace of the coding and the open source approach of the database, - searching wikiseek will found wikipedia? this is not the way to go, as we can found wikipedia directly, all other is oeconomic corruption of an encyclopaedie? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCPA - Searchme was co-founded by Randy Adams, CEO, and John Holland, CMO. The Company received initial funding from Sequoia Capital, so nothing related to the goals of Jimmy? - not a java engine - this project is disturbing the community, as no one knows the network and relationships for the collaboration from whom to whom. - wiki goes oeconomic? - if it is not open source, why then not using google. - wikiseek is violating the GPL licence of wikipedia, as users give the urls reviewed by hand to wikipedia as well in licence of GPL. Any Bibliographic index has a copyright, and this is GPL for the external lists of weburls to each article, as the url is not just an url, but a content reference of the article. As the database of wikiseek is using and summarizing them, and it is not a GPL database of wikisek, this is a licence conflict.
Well, the draft of this search engine proposal is good, but not workable on the market, as any wikipedia has a search box for the works and as well you get the external links in the acticle after you have read it.
any comments? ;-)
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:37:26 +0100
Englisch: http://www.wikiseek.com/index.php http://wikiseek.wikia.com/wiki/Wikiseek_Community_Wiki
Wikiseek is a new way to search Wikipedia. Wikiseek searches only Wikipedia and external Wikipedia links. Because these links are selected by the Wikipedia community, Wikiseek search results are likely to return more relevant results for many searches.
This Wikiseek Community Wiki is hosted by Wikia but Wikiseek is an independent project with no affiliation with Wikia or Wikipedia.
Thomas Müller wrote:
Hi, I like the idea of wikiseek, to index only wikipedia content and the urls edited in wikipedia as weblinks.
This was as well the concept develped here on the net. So it is a "w+1" hop" concept.
Contra: The problem is,
- that the database is still not open (where to download?)
It's not a Wikimedia project. They don't have that obligation.
- the search box of wikipedia already is doing the function
It's not a Wikimedia project, so the redundancy doesn't hurt us.
- it is a advertising spin-off of wikipedia ?, which is introducing advertising through the backdoor into wikipedia.
It's a project independent from Wikimedia and Wikia.
- Is this a Jimmy engine ? or just hosted at wikipedia?
I don't know about the former. It's not hosted at Wikipedia because it's not a Wikimedia project.
- quote:, "of course i am sad that it is a company rather than an open source project" - so the spin-of is taking a distance to the open source approace of the coding and the open source approach of the database,
It's not Wikimedia, so I don't think anyone here is specially qualified to comment on their reasoning. And nothing obligates them to take an open-source approach to development, even if they index Wikipedia's content.
- searching wikiseek will found wikipedia? this is not the way to go, as we can found wikipedia directly, all other is oeconomic corruption of an encyclopaedie? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCPA
If you don't like it, don't use it.
- Searchme was co-founded by Randy Adams, CEO, and John Holland, CMO. The Company received initial funding from Sequoia Capital, so nothing related to the goals of Jimmy?
No idea.
- not a java engine
That's a *bad* thing?
- this project is disturbing the community, as no one knows the network and relationships for the collaboration from whom to whom.
I would say it's having no effect on the community.
- wiki goes oeconomic?
Hmm?
- if it is not open source, why then not using google.
Use Google if you like. For me, Google still seems to give better results, even for Wikipedia.
- wikiseek is violating the GPL licence of wikipedia, as users give the urls reviewed by hand to wikipedia as well in licence of GPL. Any Bibliographic index has a copyright, and this is GPL for the external lists of weburls to each article, as the url is not just an url, but a content reference of the article. As the database of wikiseek is using and summarizing them, and it is not a GPL database of wikisek, this is a licence conflict.
No, it's not. Search engine indexes do not need to obtain licensing for the media they index.
Well, the draft of this search engine proposal is good, but not workable on the market, as any wikipedia has a search box for the works and as well you get the external links in the acticle after you have read it.
I think either success or failure would have little impact on the people here.
any comments? ;-)
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:37:26 +0100
Englisch: http://www.wikiseek.com/index.php http://wikiseek.wikia.com/wiki/Wikiseek_Community_Wiki
Wikiseek is a new way to search Wikipedia. Wikiseek searches only Wikipedia and external Wikipedia links. Because these links are selected by the Wikipedia community, Wikiseek search results are likely to return more relevant results for many searches.
This Wikiseek Community Wiki is hosted by Wikia but Wikiseek is an independent project with no affiliation with Wikia or Wikipedia.
Just so everyone is clear - Wikiseek is *not* a Wikimedia project and to my knowledge, *not* a Wikia project either. Funding, although announced on the wikiseek site, is not a formal agreement with WMF.
I won't reply to the rest before I talk to Wikiseek myself. I'm not clear, though, on the nature of the claim that it is a violation of the GFDL. Why precisely do you think the titles of pages can't be used without a violation of the GFDL?
-Brad
Thomas Müller wrote:
Hi, I like the idea of wikiseek, to index only wikipedia content and the urls edited in wikipedia as weblinks.
This was as well the concept develped here on the net. So it is a "w+1" hop" concept.
Contra: The problem is,
- that the database is still not open (where to download?)
- the search box of wikipedia already is doing the function
- it is a advertising spin-off of wikipedia ?, which is introducing advertising through the backdoor into wikipedia.
- Is this a Jimmy engine ? or just hosted at wikipedia?
- quote:, "of course i am sad that it is a company rather than an open source project" - so the spin-of is taking a distance to the open source approace of the coding and the open source approach of the database,
- searching wikiseek will found wikipedia? this is not the way to go, as we can found wikipedia directly, all other is oeconomic corruption of an encyclopaedie? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCPA
- Searchme was co-founded by Randy Adams, CEO, and John Holland, CMO. The Company received initial funding from Sequoia Capital, so nothing related to the goals of Jimmy?
- not a java engine
- this project is disturbing the community, as no one knows the network and relationships for the collaboration from whom to whom.
- wiki goes oeconomic?
- if it is not open source, why then not using google.
- wikiseek is violating the GPL licence of wikipedia, as users give the urls reviewed by hand to wikipedia as well in licence of GPL. Any Bibliographic index has a copyright, and this is GPL for the external lists of weburls to each article, as the url is not just an url, but a content reference of the article. As the database of wikiseek is using and summarizing them, and it is not a GPL database of wikisek, this is a licence conflict.
Well, the draft of this search engine proposal is good, but not workable on the market, as any wikipedia has a search box for the works and as well you get the external links in the acticle after you have read it.
any comments? ;-)
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:37:26 +0100
Englisch: http://www.wikiseek.com/index.php http://wikiseek.wikia.com/wiki/Wikiseek_Community_Wiki
Wikiseek is a new way to search Wikipedia. Wikiseek searches only Wikipedia and external Wikipedia links. Because these links are selected by the Wikipedia community, Wikiseek search results are likely to return more relevant results for many searches.
This Wikiseek Community Wiki is hosted by Wikia but Wikiseek is an independent project with no affiliation with Wikia or Wikipedia.
On 1/16/07, Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com wrote:
Just so everyone is clear - Wikiseek is *not* a Wikimedia project and to my knowledge, *not* a Wikia project either. Funding, although announced on the wikiseek site, is not a formal agreement with WMF.
I can confirm that. Although Wikia helped them to find beta testers and hosts a community wiki for them, the project is not a Wikia project and we have no affiliation with searchme.com which is the company running Wikiseek.
Angela
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:13:45 +0000 Von: Angela beesley@gmail.com An: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: [Search-l] Re: [Foundation-l] pro & con Wikiseek
On 1/16/07, Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com wrote:
Just so everyone is clear - Wikiseek is *not* a Wikimedia project and to my knowledge, *not* a Wikia project either. Funding, although announced on the wikiseek site, is not a formal agreement with WMF.
I can confirm that. Although Wikia helped them to find beta testers and hosts a community wiki for them, the project is not a Wikia project and we have no affiliation with searchme.com which is the company running Wikiseek.
Angela
-- Angela Beesley Wikia.com
It´s google, and with google syndication advertisements and undergrabbing the goal of having an open source search engine independent from google. It is nice to have it, but not at that time and with that name, as the wikiasari search is still not out ! It is at this moment total contraproductive and why not in chinese language to show to be really open...?
Well, I found one interesting use of wikiseek: Searching for spamlinks on Wikipedia. Check out
http://www.wikiseek.com/results.php?q=sex - of the 9 links on the first page at the time I did my search (the one on Wikipedia itself not counted), 7 seem to be outright spam (I'm now going through them, so they might have disappeared by the time you get to the page).
One thing I find a pity is that wikiseek seems to only search the English Wikipedia. It would be nicer to be able to search any languages, perhaps with 'all languages' as a default.
Andre,
you can do this as well with one node indexing each wikipedia in each country with the local database of a www.yacy.net node installation. Just one desktop-pc or server for each wikipedia language country.
http://www.yacy-forum.de/viewtopic.php?p=30239 http://start.xiando.org/sitesearch
see the search fields, you can adjust to search only from the local wikipedia site (you get your language search) and you can filter our all related keywords, if you choose one hop indexing.
and then you can search the internet, which could as well refer to a local database, if the yacy node is not connected to the network, then is is like a local search engine, wikipedia alreay has.
Why wikiseek is evil, you can read it here: http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/search-l/2007-January/000186.html
:-)
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:35:46 +0100 Von: "Andre Engels" andreengels@gmail.com An: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
One thing I find a pity is that wikiseek seems to only search the English Wikipedia. It would be nicer to be able to search any languages, perhaps with 'all languages' as a default.
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
wikiseek only English :(
2007/1/17, David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com:
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
True, but it's an English-only version of something that didn't exist before.
shi zhao wrote:
wikiseek only English :(
2007/1/17, David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com:
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:09:33 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
- google does not brand itself wiki - google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done - it is a trojaner, as google is behind it with its ads. - it shows, that wikimedia needs an own open search engine for wikipedia content and links/web outside.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
- one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the best weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this is a GPL violation. - it is a misleading of the brand for wikipedia and for wikia´s wikiasari open search - ir opens the hint for google´s bribery of wikipedia, as the advertisements of google finance wikipedia - it is a google trojaner in disguise for wikiasari
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
Totally wrong: we do nto want that money. Wikipedia´s contimbution it the community and not money from the google syndication ads. Google cannot buy the community. This is a hit for corruption.
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
????
Please reexamine what *free* knowledge means in the context of Wikipedia and the GFDL. Wikipedia's sense of "free" includes other people's freedom to profit from the work.
Regarding brands, "wiki" is not one. Wiki is a type of technology and (possibly) a type of community. Wikimedia, Wikipedia, and Wikia are brands.
And before you accuse Wikiseek of being a corrupt commercial preemption of Wikiasari, you should remember something: not only does Wikiasari only exist in rumor, it's probably also commercial. Neither Wikiasari nor Wikiseek is a charitable project of the Wikimedia Foundation.
thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:09:33 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
- google does not brand itself wiki
- google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done
- it is a trojaner, as google is behind it with its ads.
- it shows, that wikimedia needs an own open search engine for wikipedia content and links/web outside.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
- one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the best weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this is a GPL violation.
- it is a misleading of the brand for wikipedia and for wikia´s wikiasari open search
- ir opens the hint for google´s bribery of wikipedia, as the advertisements of google finance wikipedia
- it is a google trojaner in disguise for wikiasari
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
Totally wrong: we do nto want that money. Wikipedia´s contimbution it the community and not money from the google syndication ads. Google cannot buy the community. This is a hit for corruption.
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
????
Hello David,
right. Wikiseek is from the idea and architecture not bad, wikiwax already there, I do not like the ads and timestamp of launch. Ok so we see how wikiasari might look and it shows, that wikiseek and yacysearch are faster and exaggerated done by private persons than the wikia company. So this shows, that building a community with each member running a p2p search engine node is the way to go. Together we are stronger than 3 wikis servers or the google ones. But what is important for the foundation list still remains, that the wikipedia websites and urls are very good content, we need not only in google, but as well in the p2p search engine. So i would like to see more persons indexing wikipedia. Maybe the foundation of wikimedia can support this process wirh a few servers please for yacy. And then: besides a) private engagement in a community and b) indexing wikipedia sites we need c) as well a instituional support for open source search engines and open source seach indexed / databases. Open source means for me, without advertisements as well. And this is why the wikimediafoundation needs an open search engine and database as well. yacy could be this code for the projct. We do not need to develop code for the application, I just want a project of wikimedia foundation to run a small yacy server to index the wikipedia in each country languag please.
Would be nice, if someone can organize this and the discussion is as well done here on the foundation list. We could make a wiki-webpage for this project, we then could edit some proposals for it.
Does anyone of wikimedia foundationm agree and could provide a wiki-page on the foundation homepage to announce some search index servers (yacy) for the whole wikipedia content?
Thanks and regards. As gini is out of the bottle with wikiseek, we do not need to wait for wikiasari, we just need a community doing it with yacy.
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:11:53 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] wikiseek & wikiwax is out
Please reexamine what *free* knowledge means in the context of Wikipedia and the GFDL. Wikipedia's sense of "free" includes other people's freedom to profit from the work.
Regarding brands, "wiki" is not one. Wiki is a type of technology and (possibly) a type of community. Wikimedia, Wikipedia, and Wikia are brands.
And before you accuse Wikiseek of being a corrupt commercial preemption of Wikiasari, you should remember something: not only does Wikiasari only exist in rumor, it's probably also commercial. Neither Wikiasari nor Wikiseek is a charitable project of the Wikimedia Foundation.
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:09:33 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
- google does not brand itself wiki
- google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done
- it is a trojaner, as google is behind it with its ads.
- it shows, that wikimedia needs an own open search engine for wikipedia
content and links/web outside.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
- one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the best
weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this is a GPL violation.
- it is a misleading of the brand for wikipedia and for wikia´s
wikiasari open search
- ir opens the hint for google´s bribery of wikipedia, as the
advertisements of google finance wikipedia
- it is a google trojaner in disguise for wikiasari
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
Totally wrong: we do nto want that money. Wikipedia´s contimbution it
the community and not money from the google syndication ads. Google cannot buy the community. This is a hit for corruption.
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
????
Hoi, Open source means for me software. Software pure and simple. Wikipedia is NOT Open Source, MediaWiki is Open Source. Wikipedia is Open Content.
Your notion that open source means no adverts, is just your notion. Perfectly valid to you however it is perfectly clear how Google adds have to be enabled in a MediaWiki environment. So effectively Open Source does advertisements when this is enabled. Does this mean that to you MediaWiki is not Open Source/Free Software?? The two examples, wikiseek and wikiwax, are just two applications that you are aware off. There are more. What Ilse did to support the content of the Dutch Wikipedia is more advanced than these two. They had at some stage even a diagram with other related articles to the article you were looking for.
Wikia may indeed come up with a search engine, when it is to do the whole of the web, there will be a need for a lot of technology, innovation and money. You have to be fair, Wikia DOES use advertisements to generate its profit. This is imho perfectly fine. I do not understand why Wikia may use adverts and these other companies may not. I also fail to see that a ghost is out of a bottle; there are a number of people and organisations that can contribute to what the Wikimedia Foundation aims to do. I do think we should collaborate with many of them because it will help us achieve our goals. When a collaboration comes with implied requirements or expectations that are detrimental to our aims, we do not collaborate. When you represent the yacy people and you expect a blanket "no advertisements" or no "commercial use" then your aims are not necessarily compatible with our aims.
There is a procedure for suggesting new projects.. I suggest you follow that one.
Thanks, GerardM
Source: http://wikipedia.ilse.nl/ http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_projects
thomasasta@gmx.net schreef:
Hello David,
right. Wikiseek is from the idea and architecture not bad, wikiwax already there, I do not like the ads and timestamp of launch. Ok so we see how wikiasari might look and it shows, that wikiseek and yacysearch are faster and exaggerated done by private persons than the wikia company. So this shows, that building a community with each member running a p2p search engine node is the way to go. Together we are stronger than 3 wikis servers or the google ones. But what is important for the foundation list still remains, that the wikipedia websites and urls are very good content, we need not only in google, but as well in the p2p search engine. So i would like to see more persons indexing wikipedia. Maybe the foundation of wikimedia can support this process wirh a few servers please for yacy. And then: besides a) private engagement in a community and b) indexing wikipedia sites we need c) as well a instituional support for open source search engines and open source seach indexed / databases. Open source means for me, without advertisements as well. And this is why the wikimediafoundation needs an open search engine and database as well. yacy could be this code for the projct. We do not need to develop code for the application, I just want a project of wikimedia foundation to run a small yacy server to index the wikipedia in each country languag please.
Would be nice, if someone can organize this and the discussion is as well done here on the foundation list. We could make a wiki-webpage for this project, we then could edit some proposals for it.
Does anyone of wikimedia foundationm agree and could provide a wiki-page on the foundation homepage to announce some search index servers (yacy) for the whole wikipedia content?
Thanks and regards. As gini is out of the bottle with wikiseek, we do not need to wait for wikiasari, we just need a community doing it with yacy.
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 03:11:53 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] wikiseek & wikiwax is out
Please reexamine what *free* knowledge means in the context of Wikipedia and the GFDL. Wikipedia's sense of "free" includes other people's freedom to profit from the work.
Regarding brands, "wiki" is not one. Wiki is a type of technology and (possibly) a type of community. Wikimedia, Wikipedia, and Wikia are brands.
And before you accuse Wikiseek of being a corrupt commercial preemption of Wikiasari, you should remember something: not only does Wikiasari only exist in rumor, it's probably also commercial. Neither Wikiasari nor Wikiseek is a charitable project of the Wikimedia Foundation.
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:09:33 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
I don't understand the critical reaction to Wikiseek. No one here would criticize a new search engine that indexed the whole web *including* Wikipedia, so there's no reason to criticize a search engine that indexes *only* Wikipedia.
- google does not brand itself wiki
- google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done
- it is a trojaner, as google is behind it with its ads.
- it shows, that wikimedia needs an own open search engine for wikipedia
content and links/web outside.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
- one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the best
weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this is a GPL violation.
- it is a misleading of the brand for wikipedia and for wikia´s
wikiasari open search
- ir opens the hint for google´s bribery of wikipedia, as the
advertisements of google finance wikipedia
- it is a google trojaner in disguise for wikiasari
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
Totally wrong: we do nto want that money. Wikipedia´s contimbution it
the community and not money from the google syndication ads. Google cannot buy the community. This is a hit for corruption.
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
????
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:13:26 +0100 Von: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Hoi, Open source means for me software. Software pure and simple. Wikipedia is NOT Open Source, MediaWiki is Open Source. Wikipedia is Open Content.
yes and wikimedia needs an open search engine. I do not represent yacy development, but want to suggest to use it to make wikipedia open source engine.
There is a procedure for suggesting new projects.. I suggest you follow that one.
I will do it in a few days here: Proposal for P2 (peerpedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_P2-search_peerpedia
(peerpedia.net is free atm and I kill the person registering it, if not from wikifoundation or donating it to it!!)
Thanks, GerardM
Source: http://wikipedia.ilse.nl/
Ise is cool !
You probably shouldn't have told everyone on this mailing list not to buy peerpedia.net. Someone registered it, and it's active now.
The registration was today, so it might take 48 hours or so until it's active Internet-wide.
It's a private registration: http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=peerpedia.net&prog_id=godaddy
thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:13:26 +0100 Von: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Hoi, Open source means for me software. Software pure and simple. Wikipedia is NOT Open Source, MediaWiki is Open Source. Wikipedia is Open Content.
yes and wikimedia needs an open search engine. I do not represent yacy development, but want to suggest to use it to make wikipedia open source engine.
There is a procedure for suggesting new projects.. I suggest you follow that one.
I will do it in a few days here: Proposal for P2 (peerpedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_P2-search_peerpedia
(peerpedia.net is free atm and I kill the person registering it, if not from wikifoundation or donating it to it!!)
Thanks, GerardM
Source: http://wikipedia.ilse.nl/
Ise is cool !
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 19:25:36 -0600 Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
You probably shouldn't have told everyone on this mailing list not to buy peerpedia.net. Someone registered it, and it's active now.
The registration was today, so it might take 48 hours or so until it's active Internet-wide.
It's a private registration: http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIs.aspx?domain=peerpedia.net&prog_id=godaddy
peerpedia.net is forwaded to this
http://wikiseek.com/results.php?q=really+stupid+idea
So you know who, you know the battle now and you know the view on wikifoundation open source intention.
I posted the idea here on the list to index wikipedia plus external wiki-web-urls and it was my idea for this domain.
I wrote in a mail, that google is reading here as well and that we need not only open code and open database, but as well an open strategy to enter the market.
But that´s building the comunity: Monopolistic strategies never can stop community movement.
So we know, wikiseek is evel, as google and advertisements are behind it,
We do not need the name PEERPEDIA to get more yacy peers for the wikimediafoundation to have a really open search project.
Stay tuned and just set up one yacy node more....
Besides that the foundation can claim to get this domain back, as the mail has documentated the indetest. This is a question for the foundation to get the KK-Change.
thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 22:13:26 +0100 Von: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Hoi, Open source means for me software. Software pure and simple. Wikipedia is NOT Open Source, MediaWiki is Open Source. Wikipedia is Open
Content.
yes and wikimedia needs an open search engine. I do not represent yacy
development, but want to suggest to use it to make wikipedia open source engine.
There is a procedure for suggesting new projects.. I suggest you follow that one.
I will do it in a few days here: Proposal for P2 (peerpedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_P2-search_peerpedia
(peerpedia.net is free atm and I kill the person registering it, if not
from wikifoundation or donating it to it!!)
Thanks, GerardM
Source: http://wikipedia.ilse.nl/
Ise is cool !
On 1/18/07, "Thomas Müller" thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
So you know who, you know the battle now and you know the view on wikifoundation open source intention.
Whose battle for what against whom?
So we know, wikiseek is evel, as google and advertisements are behind it,
Pardon? And I would like to know who is we in your context...
Aphaia wrote:
On 1/18/07, "Thomas Müller" thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
So you know who, you know the battle now and you know the view on wikifoundation open source intention.
Whose battle for what against whom?
So we know, wikiseek is evel, as google and advertisements are behind it,
Pardon? And I would like to know who is we in your context...
Dunno about you, but I am getting more and more confused. Between Wikiasari, wikisearch, wikiseek, peerpedia, peerpedia and other yacy development, I am wondering if this is still Wikimedia Foundation mailing list...
Which battles ? which intentions ? which registration ? Which advertisement ? What what what ?
Could we stick to talk about the Foundation here and all others talking of other projects, other organisations, other business company, stick to their own mailing lists to avoid confusion ?
Is there someone here trying to launch a troll or what ?
Ant
Hi Anthere,
I think the search engine wars will be important to WMF because Wikipedia plays a key role in them.
That's because the high quality of Wikipedia pages (as compared with a random sample of web pages) will basically be used to give computers "world understanding" which in turn is a critical component of "divining intent" i.e. figuring out what the user wants from the search engine when he types in a few words into the text box.
There has been some good progress on using Wikipedia to create models of the world; a recent IJCAI paper improved significantly (according to the authors) on a computer's ability to figure out how close in meaning two texts are (simplifying: how close a search request and a webpage are). So the pure software is getting there. Next to smart search algorithms, the other critical component you need in search is raw computing power like Google's data centers. Non-profits will never match Google here, so the solution has to be a peer-to-peer community approach (think SETI@HOME), which is probably why you see the yacy people here pushing their p2p engine.
Now, I think you are right when you say WMF doesn't have anything to do with the search wars---in principle. So people with a political conviction that search is a public utility should go to some other place. However, what I'm trying to say is that they will be back because Wikipedia will play a critical role in any attempt of making search a public utility.
Cheers to the future...
Dirk
Anthere wrote:
Aphaia wrote:
On 1/18/07, "Thomas Müller" thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
So you know who, you know the battle now and you know the view on wikifoundation open source intention.
Whose battle for what against whom?
So we know, wikiseek is evel, as google and advertisements are behind it,
Pardon? And I would like to know who is we in your context...
Dunno about you, but I am getting more and more confused. Between Wikiasari, wikisearch, wikiseek, peerpedia, peerpedia and other yacy development, I am wondering if this is still Wikimedia Foundation mailing list...
Which battles ? which intentions ? which registration ? Which advertisement ? What what what ?
Could we stick to talk about the Foundation here and all others talking of other projects, other organisations, other business company, stick to their own mailing lists to avoid confusion ?
Is there someone here trying to launch a troll or what ?
Ant
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:13:36 +0100 Von: Dirk Riehle dirk@riehle.org
Hi Anthere,
Next to smart search algorithms, the other critical component you need in search is raw computing power like Google's data centers. Non-profits will never match Google here, so the solution has to be a peer-to-peer community approach.
yes, this is the way to go, thanks Dirk. But is it a way to go for wikifoundation?
Now, I think you are right when you say WMF doesn't have anything to do with the search wars---in principle. So people with a political conviction that search is a public utility should go to some other place. However, what I'm trying to say is that they will be back because Wikipedia will play a critical role in any attempt of making search a public utility.
Very hintful spoken, good, *IF* one social movement to openness and participation is done in these ages, then this is editing wikis, especially the wikipedia.
So saying that open search engine code and open url database is not releated to the age we live in is the same lie to say, that wikifoundation has nothing to do with wikipedia.
So.. searching and providing information is the core competency of wikipedia and the foundations mission... and this is in the next step the webcontent outside wikipedia.
wikipedia is a good startpoint to learn and explore, and this is not bounded to the world outside, sic the webinks: so we need a search engine.
The open and participation movement has to go on, for the rest of the web and correlated to the community of wikipedia, this is why the foundation is in the boat to develop or support a p2p search engine.
Is it too much asked, to not code this app? to not promote this app? Just to add the wikiedia content to the index yacy machine? This job can do 50 servers, we do not need human resources, so this is why I asked for 10.000 dollars for the hardware.
Sometimes I think the money is spent wrong because of a satisfied organization with a lack of innovation and inspiration. All are satisfied with the wikipedia, which is a stable system and the money is done to any bureau copy machine, than to invest into the hardware for new adresesm, users get information from. Don´t missunderstand me. I tried to start a subproject to found here as well, but it is not granted, so we need just the hardware. 50 servers for 199 Euro, which is 150 US Dollars per each.
The foundation needs to realize it´s own core competencies: providing information and now it is time to get rid of the boarder of wiki-urls and rest of the world urls. We need an indexing p2p machine.
The claim itself came from Jimmy Wales, himself Founder of the open participatin idea, and generated a big hypoe in the world.
But now, as wikiseek is out and discussions have been done, we see, that a advertising for profit peroject is the wrong way. It should have been in the right place here discussed from the foundation.
I wounder, why this is not done and how we can get into it. Wikiasari idea is even mroe related to wikifoundation than to wikiasari. This shows wikiseek, which expells back to wikipedia.
And this is the reason I am trying to vote here for 10.000 Dollars for 50 yacy desktop computers to index every wikipedia to this p2p network as an alternativ eopen source search eninge.
So who can decide over the dollars to buy this hardware?
Well, it need not to be 50 in the fist moth, let´s say 10 for the english wikipedia and we create as well a demo-search portal with a big local index of wikipedia like www.yacysearch.com
Furthermore, why can´t any foudation list member answer the question, which software for the wikipediasearch box are used right now as a centrals earch engine? is financial and technical staff so devided?
On 1/18/07, thomasasta@gmx.net thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
So.. searching and providing information is the core competency of wikipedia and the >foundations mission... and this is in the next step the webcontent outside wikipedia.
There is a difference between providing information, indexing information, and searching for information.
wikipedia is a good startpoint to learn and explore, and this is not bounded to the world >outside, sic the webinks: so we need a search engine.
We seem to get by without one.
The open and participation movement has to go on, for the rest of the web and correlated >to the community of wikipedia, this is why the foundation is in the boat to develop or >support a p2p search engine.
Not really.
Is it too much asked, to not code this app?
We have no spare developer resources.
to not promote this app?
We generally try to avoid directly promoting third party projects.
Just to add the wikiedia content to the index yacy machine? This job can do 50 servers, >we do not need human resources, so this is why I asked for 10.000 dollars for the >hardware.
There are a lot of other things we could do with $10,000
Sometimes I think the money is spent wrong because of a satisfied organization with a >lack of innovation and inspiration. All are satisfied with the wikipedia, which is a stable >system and the money is done to any bureau copy machine, than to invest into the >hardware for new adresesm, users get information from.
Wikipedia is hardly our only project. there is commons Wiktionary, Wikinews, Wikiversity etc.
Don´t missunderstand me. I tried to start a subproject to found here
as well, but it is not >granted, so we need just the hardware.
Experience suggests you would need far more than that.
50 servers for 199 Euro, which is 150 US Dollars per each.
I think there is an error in you calculations.
The foundation needs to realize it´s own core competencies: providing information and >now it is time to get rid of the boarder of wiki-urls and rest of the world urls. We need an >indexing p2p machine.
Why?
The claim itself came from Jimmy Wales, himself Founder of the open participatin idea, >and generated a big hypoe in the world.
Umm wikis are generally credited to Ward Cunningham.
But now, as wikiseek is out and discussions have been done, we see, that a advertising >for profit peroject is the wrong way. It should have been in the right place here discussed >from the foundation.
Wikiseek doesn't have much to do with us.
I wounder, why this is not done and how we can get into it. Wikiasari idea is even mroe related to wikifoundation than to wikiasari. This shows wikiseek, which expells back to wikipedia.
Neither are foundation projects.
And this is the reason I am trying to vote here for 10.000 Dollars for 50 yacy desktop >computers to index every wikipedia to this p2p network as an alternativ eopen source >search eninge.
So who can decide over the dollars to buy this hardware?
Technically that would be within the remit of the board but they are unlikely to do so
Well, it need not to be 50 in the fist moth, let´s say 10 for the english wikipedia and we >create as well a demo-search portal with a big local index of wikipedia like >www.yacysearch.com
Have you any idea how big the en .wikipedia database is?
Furthermore, why can´t any foudation list member answer the question, which software >for the wikipediasearch box are used right now as a centrals earch engine? is financial and >technical staff so devided?
Going by [[Special:version]] we use LuceneSearch.
hi anthere
ok, no problem, I was upset, because agreeing on a (open search) project (wikiasari) means as well not to lauch third party projets with the same ideas and names just in time to disturb the agreement (wkiseek is bashing wikisari, if not the same people are running it). But that is market. Here: There was the post about a sub-project of the wikipedia to start an open search engine owned by the foundation.
As no one is interested in peerpedia, we can stop this and bundle the power to the brand yacy. Though wikimedia supporting an open search engine would offer a goog synergy effect. Then we just discuss here normal and not innovative things and just watch wikiasari and third party advertising models. Though besides the branding and a project, it would be nice, having some servers - as said - indexing the wikipedia for yacy.net financed by the 1 Mio dollars.
Here a PC (3000 AMD MHz, 40 GB, 512 MB RAM) costs 199 Euro, we have for the term "madonna" 45 languages in wikipedia, so to buy 50 servers this will cost 10.000 euro, linux java yacy software is for free. Bandwidth overhead just 5.000 euro. This is in US Dollar just about 10.000 Dollar, which I wanted to have you invested in 50 servers indexing with yacy the wikipedia, providing to the p2p search engine.
we need no peerpedia domain or a project management, just 10.000 Dollars for 50 desktop pc´s indexing wikipedia in an open source engine.
Is that too much to request? Who in persona is deciding about this investment and which technician or engineer is able to install the pc´s?
-------- Original-Nachricht -------- Datum: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:00:20 +0100 Von: Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com An: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] P2 - PEERPEDIA
Aphaia wrote:
On 1/18/07, "Thomas Müller" thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
So you know who, you know the battle now and you know the view on wikifoundation open source intention.
Whose battle for what against whom?
So we know, wikiseek is evel, as google and advertisements are behind
it,
Pardon? And I would like to know who is we in your context...
Dunno about you, but I am getting more and more confused. Between Wikiasari, wikisearch, wikiseek, peerpedia, peerpedia and other yacy development, I am wondering if this is still Wikimedia Foundation mailing list...
Which battles ? which intentions ? which registration ? Which advertisement ? What what what ?
Could we stick to talk about the Foundation here and all others talking of other projects, other organisations, other business company, stick to their own mailing lists to avoid confusion ?
Is there someone here trying to launch a troll or what ?
Ant
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 18/01/07, thomasasta@gmx.net thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
hi anthere
ok, no problem, I was upset, because agreeing on a (open search) project (wikiasari) means as well not to lauch third party projets with the same ideas and names just in time to disturb the agreement (wkiseek is bashing wikisari, if not the same people are running it). But that is market.
There is no such "agreement". Wikiasari does not exist, in any real terms; it's a vague sketch of an idea. Neither 'wikiasari' or wikiseek are operated by the Foundation, funded by the Foundation, or in any way our problem. Nor - indeed - are they seeking to do the same thing; one is a general-purpose search engine and one is tied to a specific corpus. One has been in development for months; one has just magically appeared in the last few weeks and is still being debated.
They are not run by the same people; they are not doing the same thing; and yet you believe they are in conflict. You apparently seem to believe that when one group of people have decided "we will create an open search engine" without yet working out how it will work, a timescale, a plan, anything... that every other search-engine project in the world should down tools and not do anything until that's finished. This is just bizzare, and completely at odds with the way the development world works.
Here: There was the post about a sub-project of the wikipedia to start an open search engine owned by the foundation.
There has never *been* such a project in the community. You fervently want us to create one using your pet ideas, and you keep telling us about it; please do not mistake this for support.
we need no peerpedia domain or a project management, just 10.000 Dollars for 50 desktop pc´s indexing wikipedia in an open source engine.
The Foundation has better things to spend ten thousand dollars on. We *have* a freely available search engine, which indexes Wikipedia, and is working well enough for now. Why should we spend money on something else just because you shout about it?
On 1/17/07, David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com wrote:
You probably shouldn't have told everyone on this mailing list not to buy peerpedia.net. Someone registered it, and it's active now.
If you're truly peer to peer, then you don't need a domain name.
Anthony
<cues Ross Mayfield> It's all about TUBES. TUBES connecting people with other people and other tubes. One you get to the true Tube-to-Tube network, you won't need the people any more. </RM>
--SJ, wondering what tubetube videos will look like
On Thu, 18 Jan 2007, Anthony wrote:
On 1/17/07, David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com wrote:
You probably shouldn't have told everyone on this mailing list not to buy peerpedia.net. Someone registered it, and it's active now.
If you're truly peer to peer, then you don't need a domain name.
Anthony
On 1/17/07, thomasasta@gmx.net thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
Von: David Strauss david@fourkitchens.com
And in the event that Wikiseek is successful, the Foundation might even receive some sizable contributions.
Totally wrong: we do nto want that money.
Excuse me. Can you please explain, who "we" is exactly?
Arne
thomasasta@gmx.net wrote: <snip>
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
That's been around a LONG time - it was first reported on wikien-l back in March 2005.
On 17/01/07, thomasasta@gmx.net thomasasta@gmx.net wrote:
- google is not doing this before a wiki *open search* launch is done
"Wiki open search", right now, is a fantasy. It was a project that died years ago and was recreated *by accident* in late December. It has no defined schedule, no solidly decided plans, nothing much beyond "some kind of user-worked search engine thing might be pretty funky, let's look into this"
To pretend that an actual, existing, unrelated project, which has been in the works for some time, suspend itself while people tell themselves how wonderful this new and un-created vague concept of a search engine will be is just... silly.
I also don't see how Wikiseek could hurt Wikipedia. If anything, more avenues to Wikipedia will *increase* the number of readers and editors.
- one is making money from my work, searching hoursly for the
best weblinks for the article of "pregnancy"? They are doing money with my free editors work and manual linksearch, either they make the database open or this is a GPL violation.
It appears you a) don't understand the GPL - you mean the GFDL - and b) don't understand the GFDL either - it has no prohibitions on making money off your content, or any kind of bizzare 'to work with this you must have our preferred type of software' requirements)
and what about the second clone: http://www.wikiwax.com/
Wikiwax is not a "clone" of anything, and they've been around almost two years.
They've contributed something very useful to the community which they don't charge for, and they've not tried to pass themselves off as anything they're not. They do an excellent job of providing a highly-tailored service using some innovative software. If they make enough money off it to cover costs and give them some reward for their time and effort, then good for them.
On 1/16/07, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Michael Bimmler schreef:
On 1/16/07, Nicholas Moreau nicholasmoreau@gmail.com wrote:
- Is it bilingual? : To be discussed. The Swiss mailing list is
quatrolingual. but let's concentrate on discussing stuff in English first, as only two members of over 100 are unilingual Francophones.
For the record: Although we certainly answer and take note of french, italian or rhaeto-romanic posts, we use English as "working language" for internal communication, be it the public wikimediach-l or internal private mailinglists. There are some german threads from time to time, but the mailinglist is de facto english.
Michael
Hoi, Western Abnaki http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:abe - Algonquin http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:alq - American Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ase - Assiniboine http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:asb - Atikamekw http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:atj - Babine http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bcr - Beaver http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bea - Bella Coola http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:blc - Blackfoot http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:bla - Carrier http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crx - Southern Carrier http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:caf - Cayuga http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:cay - Chilcotin http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:clc - Chinook Wawa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:chn - Chipewyan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:chp - Comox http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:coo - Moose Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crm - Plains Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crk - Swampy Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:csw - Woods Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:cwd - Dakota http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:dak - Dogrib http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:dgr - Northern East Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crl - Southern East Cree http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crj - English http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:eng - French http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:fra - Hutterite German http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:geh - Pennsylvania German http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pdc - Gitxsan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:git - Gwich'in http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:gwi - Northern Haida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hdn - Southern Haida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hax - Haisla http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:has - Halkomelem http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hur - Han http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:haa - Heiltsuk http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:hei - Eastern Canadian Inuktitut http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ike - Western Canadian Inuktitut http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ikt - North Alaskan Inupiatun http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:esi - Kaska http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kkz - Kutenai http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kut - Kwakiutl http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:kwk - Lakota http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:lkt - Lillooet http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:lil - Malecite-Passamaquoddy http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pqm - Maritime Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:nsr - Michif http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:crg - Micmac http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:mic - Mohawk http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:moh - Montagnais http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:moe - Munsee http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:umu - Naskapi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:nsk - Nisga'a http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ncg - Nootka http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:noo - Central Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojc - Eastern Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojg - Northwestern Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojb - Severn Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojs - Western Ojibwa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ojw - Okanagan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:oka - Oneida http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:one - Onondaga http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ono - Ottawa http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:otw - Plautdietsch http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pdt - Potawatomi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:pot - Quebec Sign Language http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:fcs - Straits Salish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:str - Sarsi http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:srs - Sechelt http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sec - Sekani http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sek - Seneca http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:see - Shuswap http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:shs - North Slavey http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:scs - South Slavey http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:xsl - Squamish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:squ - Stoney http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:sto - Tagish http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tgx - Tahltan http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tht - Upper Tanana http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tau - Thompson http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:thp - Tlingit http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tli - Tsimshian http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tsi - Tuscarora http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tus - Northern Tutchone http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:ttm - Southern Tutchone http://www.omegawiki.org/Portal:tce
These are the languages still spoken in Canada according to Ethnologue.. There is more then English French Italian and Rhaeto Romanic to this wonderful country. Thanks, GerardM
I think Michael was talking about the Swiss list (English, French, Italian and Rhaeto Romanic are the official languages of Switzerland).
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org