In fact, we’ve pretty much concluded that disclosing a minor editors age
publicly, or to more people than necessary, would decrease their safety.
Requiring age verification may not disclose the childs’ age publicly, but
it would expose their age to more people. One would hope these people have
secure accounts, but that’s difficult to impossible to enforce. It would be
more ideal if no one knew the exact age of minor editors (“minor” being
defined as 15 and under at the moment), so accidental exposure is
impossible.
I've realized that I'm having trouble reconciling a minors right to privacy
while proving that they are, in fact, minors.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 5:04 AM Neurodivergent Netizen <
idoh.idreamofhorses(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Wikipedia is not asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally
> you can have an account even if you are underage.
>
In fact, we’ve pretty much concluded that disclosing a minor editors age
publicly, or to more people than necessary, would decrease their safety.
Requiring age verification may not disclose the childs’ age publicly, but
it would expose their age to more people. One would hope these people have
secure accounts, but that’s difficult to impossible to enforce. It would be
more ideal if no one knew the exact age of minor editors (“minor” being
defined as 15 and under at the moment), so accidental exposure is
impossible.
>
> Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult
> content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at
> Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended
> for that.
>
>
> I’d like to disclaim that I think pornographic pictures on Commons is a
> genuine issue, and we need to take steps to decrease the amount of them.
> However, one controversy we run into is the definition of “adult content,”
> and also “appropriate for teenagers but not for children.” Even with porn,
> you kind of know it when you see it but you can’t *quite* define
> it, particularly when there might be an academic need to visually depict or
> describe sexual acts or human anatomy (like, for example, on Wikipedia).
> This makes filtration, even if installed on a computer instead of a
> website, problematic.
>
> I’ll respond to your “there’s no advice” below.
>
> The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so providing
> them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction says) is
> better that not providing at all.
>
>
> We’ve actually think of children quite a bit on Wikipedia. Hence, my last
> few paragraphs, which have been partially informed by discussions with
> other Wikimedians. If there’s any doubt, here are multiple links for proof:
>
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protecting_children%27s_privacy
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protecting_children's_privacy>
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Child_protection
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guidance_for_younger_editors
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advice_for_parents
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advice_for_parents>
> *
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting…
>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children's_privacy>
>
> And that’s just from one search. I’m sure I can find other essays in more
> obscure parts of Wikipedia, but I think six essays/policy/guideline pages
> is quite enough. :-)
>
> From,
> I dream of horses
> She/her
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2022, at 3:37 AM, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any
> extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even
> if you are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and
> they can find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that,
> nor filters at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were
> not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from
> children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our
> strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all.
>
> If you want to know more about Txikipedia, contact us, please.
>
> Galder
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses(a)gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2022 2:59 AM
> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>
> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia
> project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere
> that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that
> America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks
> when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids
> are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not
> worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff
> so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the
> background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are
> obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects.
>
> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite
> quickly.
>
> From,
> I dream of horses
> She/her
>
> On Jun 21, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.damour(a)gmx.fr> wrote:
>
> Hi Ziko, Samuel and everybody,
>
> *De:* "Ziko van Dijk" <zvandijk(a)gmail.com>
> Hello Samuel,
>
> Thank you for your mail. I would like to see more attention from the
> Wikimedia movement for the target group children age ca. 8-14.
>
> I am afraid there is no real comprehensive study about the best way to
> provide encyclopedic wiki content to children, or even to involve them in
> the content creation.
>
> In general, children are a very special and vulnerable group. This can
> become problematic when they are directly involved on a platform, and when
> it comes to the content itself.
>
> And yet it works well with Vikidia, which has been active for more than 15
> years, writing an average of 6 articles par day since the beginning !
> There is some blog posts that elaborate how it works, what it implies and
> what it means to let a multi-age community work together, unfortunatly only
> in french (except one in english):
>
https://www.wikimedia.fr/author/astirmays/
> My english is certainly not good enought to translate them properly, yet I
> would be glad to get some help to do so or to find a way to get them
> translated (anybody tell me if you wish to help translating 2 or 3 of
> theses posts !)
> One also reviews some of the commons objections to such a project and how
> we adress them.
>
> Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> schrieb am Mo. 20. Juni 2022 um 02:25:
>
> More languages should try that. a) simple skin hack, b) loving and
> lovely idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia
> projects :) Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians. SJ
>
> Actually when you have a "standalone kidipedia project", it has the great
> benefit to allow to have its own community, and not to be marginalized
> inside a much bigger project. Both young readers and young editors love it.
> I guess that the choice may depend on the size of the "mother" Wikipedia
> and the potential community to gather on this project.
>
> Mathias Damour
> [[User:Astirmays]]
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--
From,
I dream of horses
