Josh,
We are, as a movement, remarkably forgiving of things like missed
deadlines, incomplete reports, and other compliance issues that, in a
different environment, might be regarded with rather more severity. This
is, I think, as it should be; we are, for the most part, volunteers --
often volunteers with little experience in managing formal reporting and
other elements of organizational compliance -- and we need to be flexible
and accommodate that if we are to successfully build a diverse and
inclusive movement.
At the same time, it's important to keep in mind that this forgiveness is
not -- and cannot be -- infinite. Wikimedia Philippines had been directly
aware of its non-compliance -- both with regard to its obligations under
the Wikimedia chapter agreement and in other areas -- for more than two
years; indeed, as Ting has mentioned, addressing that non-compliance was on
the Affiliation Committee's agenda when you yourself were a member. It is
disingenuous for you to imply that the formal suspension notice sent to you
in September was somehow unexpected or unfair; it was the unfortunate but
necessary culmination of a lengthy sequence of attempts to address the
situation, and not the unwarranted and arbitrary demand you've made it out
to be.
Nobody -- not the Affiliations Committee, not the Wikimedia Foundation, not
anyone else -- is disputing the fact that you made efforts to return to
compliance. We acknowledge, and appreciate, these efforts; but, at the end
of the day, they were merely *efforts* -- as you yourself have admitted,
you ultimately failed to complete the actions that were required of you by
the deadline. Unfortunately, since that deadline was mandated by the legal
notice requirements in your chapter agreement, rather than something
determined by the Affiliations Committee or the Wikimedia Foundation, there
was no further relief that we could give you.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Josh Lim <jamesjoshualim(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
First of all, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm
merely stating what is our
position: that is, that we've been dealing with our issues to the best of
our ability. That said, I'm sorry, but I will not tolerate being told that
I am "misleading" the movement by telling people what we've done to get
ourselves out of this mess. I wouldn't dare stake my own reputation on
misleading the movement, and for people to presume otherwise is appalling
for a movement that claims to work on a fundamental assumption of good
faith.
It's perfectly fine that we've come to opposing conclusions as to how
compliant we are, but the facts stand that we've worked our butts off to
return to compliance. And we intend to do so. If the Wikimedia
Foundation's ideal conclusion is that non-compliant affiliates ought to
disband entirely, then what good is the process in the first place if the
idea is to help organizations return to compliance?
I'll affirm that we've received a deadline notice. I confirmed that in my
last e-mail to this list. The Wikimedia Foundation did give a list of
things that we had to fix to return to compliance. We ticked off a number
of items from that list, and have conceded in our internal communications
that other items can't be ticked off immediately owing to our capacity and
asked for more time to that effect. The decision that was ultimately made
was for us to lose our status because not everything was met by the
deadline, and that was DESPITE everything that we've done at WMPH to meet
the deadline to begin with.
So no, I will NOT tolerate being told that we did nothing to return to
compliance, and by no less than the chair of the Affiliations Committee --
who otherwise I have a deep respect for -- in fact. At the very least,
there has to be a concession that we tried. I have not heard that from the
other side thus far, and I'm here to make sure that people know that we in
fact DID try to return to compliance.
Thanks,
Josh
(P.S.: For those asking, PhilWiki is not affiliated with WMPH. PhilWiki
is a splinter group that was founded by a former member of Wikimedia
Philippines, and is largely based in the Bicol Region in southern Luzon.
WMPH, meanwhile, was based in Manila and had members nationwide.)
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Block I1, AB Political Science
Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim(a)yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582
Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harborhttps://joshlim.me
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 3:58:48 AM PDT, Ting Chen <wing.philopp(a)gmx.de>
wrote:Hello Gnangarra,
I joined AffCom in 2015, at that time the issue with Wikimedia
Philippines was already on the table. The AffCom and the WMF had tried
two years to get a settlement without a de-recognition with them.
Meanwhile it is 2017, I don't believe Josh could resolve the problem in
the last five hours which the entire Wikimedia Philippines was not able
to resolve in the past two years. As I said in my other post, I
personally don't think it wise to withhold information, especially
obviously the people who would be "protected" don't appreciate being
protected. But actually on the decision itself if there is something the
AffCom is to be blamed, it is that it took them two years of time to
make that hard decision. It was overdue, actually.
Greetings
Ting
Am 25.04.2017 um 11:43 schrieb Gnangarra:
In the original email from Josh he raises some
points about still working
to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your
response
which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San
Francisco it appears that
it
could not be possible for the WMF to have
considered and refuted what was
raised, especially to say
*"The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
details."
*I
am concerned about how you can speak so
categorically after just 5 hours
for the WMF when they arent even awake, especially given it normally
takes
a few days for any official statement from the
WMF.
I have no problem with affiliates being deregistered but the process
should
be transparent and it should also be fair, no
discussion or response to
what Josh raised publically is neither fair nor transparent
Josh response was that WMPH was accountable you could have least given
him
the chance to clarify the availability of the
reporting requirements by
providing them
On 25 April 2017 at 17:33, Maor Malul <maor_x(a)zoho.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are /not
> /members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a completely
> different Wikimedia affiliate.
>
> If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues started to
> appear in 2014, and the chapter was notified back then. More issues
> accumulated over the time, and a solution was indeed searched for.
Please
> elaborate on what "substantive
discussion, consultation or
investigation"
> means.
>
>
> 1:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PhilWiki_Community
>
>
> El 25/04/2017 a las 12:16 p.m., Gnangarra escribió:
>
>> It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and it
>> should be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two members at
the
>> recent Wikimedia Conference in Berlin
arent there reporting
requirements
>> attached to eligibility requirements.
They are also part of the group
>> organising the ESEA conference in February 2018 along with a number of
>> other affiliates in the region. Those of us who have committed people,
time
>> and other resources need some clarity as
well
>>
>> While there appears to be some confusion here, Affcom and WMF should at
>> least take some time to clarify the issues especially given its
currently
>> 2am in San Francisco and it was only 9pm
when Joshes email was sent.
To me
>> it appears as if no substantive
discussion, consultation or
investigation
>> of Joshes claims could have taken place
to warrant such a harsh
response so
>> quickly.
>>
>> On 25 April 2017 at 16:05, Maor Malul <maor_x(a)zoho.com <mailto:
>> maor_x(a)zoho.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Josh,
>>
>> The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
>> details of the very serious governance issues in order not to hurt
>> the movement and the reputation of the people involved. Please,
>> avoid misleading and adding drama to this situation -which is
>> already difficult, and damages the movement as a whole. WMPH was
>> given very specific recommendations of what do and what not to do,
>> but decided to go its own way.
>>
>> M.
>>
>>
>> El 25/04/2017 a las 06:17 a.m., Josh Lim escribió:
>>
>> If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being
>> “accountable”, then I have serious doubts about how this
>> process will remain sustainable.
>>
>> I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly demotivating
>> for everyone involved. I’ve been trying to keep myself
>> composed throughout the entire process, but at this point I
>> simply cannot.
>>
>> I will gladly admit that we’ve made mistakes, us more than
>> others. Every organization does. But I will not allow the
>> work that I’ve dedicated over a decade of my life to be thrown
>> out the window because we weren’t “accountable”. To the best
>> of our ability, we WERE accountable to our community and to
>> the movement. And I, frankly, feet that we were as
>> accountable as we could’ve been.
>>
>> You may all want to know why I’ve been silent through this
>> entire process. It’s because I cannot, and I still cannot,
>> process the grief this entire process has brought upon
>> Wikimedia Philippines, and especially myself. I will try to
>> be optimistic about the future, as people have been telling me
>> to do, but at this point in time, at least have some respect
>> for the work that we’ve done over the last six years. That’s
>> really all I’m asking for at this point.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, James Heilman
>> <jmh649(a)gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>>>
wrote:
>>
>> I second Itzik's comments. We need some degree of
>> accountability. Hopefully this will encourage groups in
>> the Philippines to become more active again.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia
>> Israel<itzik(a)wikimedia.org.il
>> <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>
>> <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il
>>
>> <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>>>wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Maor for the update.
>>
>> We usually love to see our movement expend and welcome
>> recognition of new
>> organizations, but I strongly believe that we
>> continuously need
>> to check
>> and evaluate our current organizations.
>>
>> Our brand, name and reputation are part of our core
>> assets - and
>> while it's
>> not an easy step, I appreciate Affcom efforts not
only
to
>> recognize new
>> ones but also to de-recognize organizations that are
>> not longer
>> active or
>> non-compliance with our movement requirements.
>>
>> Few weeks ago in Berlin we had a first meeting to
>> start discuses
>> what is a
>> "movement accountability" and how we evaluate
>> organizations who
>> operate
>> outside of the FDC process and I believe Affcom have a
>> significant part in
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Regards,Itzik Edri*
>> Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
>> +972-54-5878078
>> <tel:%2B972-54-5878078> |http://www.wikimedia.org.il
>> <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/>
>> Imagine a world in which every single human being can
>> freely
>> share in the
>> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Maor Malul
>> <maor_x(a)zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>
>> <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com
<mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>>>
wrote:
>>
>> > *
>> >
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > **
>> >
>> > *Recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate - a chapter,
>> thematic
>> organization,
>> > or user group - allows an independent group to
>> officially use
>> the Wikimedia
>> > name to further the Wikimedia mission, with certain
>> duties and
>> > responsibilities. While most Wikimedia affiliates
>> adhere to
>> the basic
>> > compliance standards set forth in their agreements
>> with the
>> Wikimedia
>> > Foundation, a protocol has been developed to
address
the
>> exceptional cases
>> > when a Wikimedia affiliate does not meet minimum
>> compliance
>> standards and
>> > their continued recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate
>> presents a
>> risk to the
>> > Wikimedia movement.*
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > On September 9, 2016, Wikimedia Philippines was
>> notified of their
>> > suspension as a Wikimedia affiliate due to long
>> standing and
>> serious
>> > governance issues, as well as non-compliance with
>> reporting
>> requirements
>> > which go as back as 2014, has been sent multiple
>> warnings
>> regarding them,
>> > and on the date mentioned above, was provided with
>> an explicit
>> list of
>> > tasks and deadlines in order to return to compliance
>> with their
>> chapter
>> > agreement. The chapter failed to complete these
>> tasks by the
>> deadline of
>> > November 28, 2016, and was consequently notified
>> that they
>> would no longer
>> > be recognized as a Wikimedia chapter after the
>> termination of
>> their Chapter
>> > Agreement on March 1, 2017. It is important to make
>> clear that the
>> > Affiliations Committee will continue to support
>> other organized
>> Wikimedia
>> > communities and their activities in the Philippines.
>> >
>> > If you have questions about what this means for the
>> community
>> members in
>> > their region or language areas, we have put together
>> a very
>> basic FAQ,
>> > which may be found
at<https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> >
>> wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate_de-recognition_FAQ>
https:/
>> >
>> /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
>> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_
affiliate
>> s/>
>> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wi
>> ki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
>>
>> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_
affiliate
>> s/>>
>> > Affiliate_derecognition_FAQ.*
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü
>> alijunakalirua jee
>> wayuukanairua
>> > junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka.
>> Ayatashi waya
>> junain."
>> > Maor Malul
>> > Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2
>> |www.wikimedia.org.ve <http://www.wikimedia.org.ve>
>> <http://www.wikimedia.org.ve/>
>> > <http://wikimedia.org.ve <http://wikimedia.org.ve/
>
>> > Member, Wikimedia Israel |www.wikimedia.org.il
>> <http://www.wikimedia.org.il>
>> <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/><
http://wikimedia.org.il
>>
<http://wikimedia.org.il/>>
>> > Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations
Committee
>
> Phone:+972-52-4869915 <tel:%2B972-52-4869915>
> > Twitter: @maor_x
> > _______________________________________________
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>> --
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
>> President, Wikimedia Philippines
>>
>> j <mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
>> <mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com>>osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
>> <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph>
>> <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
>> <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph>> | +63 (977) 831-7582
>> Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
>>
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>>
>>
>> -- "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee
>> wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka.
>> Ayatashi waya junain."
>> Maor Malul
>> Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
>>
www.wikimedia.org.ve <http://www.wikimedia.org.ve>
>> <http://wikimedia.org.ve>
>> Member, Wikimedia Israel |
www.wikimedia.org.il
>> <http://www.wikimedia.org.il> <http://wikimedia.org.il>
>> Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
>> Phone: +972-52-4869915
>> Twitter: @maor_x
>> _______________________________________________
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>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU:
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>> Photo Gallery:
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> --
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> junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain."
> Maor Malul
> Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
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> <http://wikimedia.org.ve>
> Member, Wikimedia Israel |
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