Josh,
We are, as a movement, remarkably forgiving of things like missed deadlines, incomplete reports, and other compliance issues that, in a different environment, might be regarded with rather more severity. This is, I think, as it should be; we are, for the most part, volunteers -- often volunteers with little experience in managing formal reporting and other elements of organizational compliance -- and we need to be flexible and accommodate that if we are to successfully build a diverse and inclusive movement.
At the same time, it's important to keep in mind that this forgiveness is not -- and cannot be -- infinite. Wikimedia Philippines had been directly aware of its non-compliance -- both with regard to its obligations under the Wikimedia chapter agreement and in other areas -- for more than two years; indeed, as Ting has mentioned, addressing that non-compliance was on the Affiliation Committee's agenda when you yourself were a member. It is disingenuous for you to imply that the formal suspension notice sent to you in September was somehow unexpected or unfair; it was the unfortunate but necessary culmination of a lengthy sequence of attempts to address the situation, and not the unwarranted and arbitrary demand you've made it out to be.
Nobody -- not the Affiliations Committee, not the Wikimedia Foundation, not anyone else -- is disputing the fact that you made efforts to return to compliance. We acknowledge, and appreciate, these efforts; but, at the end of the day, they were merely *efforts* -- as you yourself have admitted, you ultimately failed to complete the actions that were required of you by the deadline. Unfortunately, since that deadline was mandated by the legal notice requirements in your chapter agreement, rather than something determined by the Affiliations Committee or the Wikimedia Foundation, there was no further relief that we could give you.
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
First of all, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm merely stating what is our position: that is, that we've been dealing with our issues to the best of our ability. That said, I'm sorry, but I will not tolerate being told that I am "misleading" the movement by telling people what we've done to get ourselves out of this mess. I wouldn't dare stake my own reputation on misleading the movement, and for people to presume otherwise is appalling for a movement that claims to work on a fundamental assumption of good faith. It's perfectly fine that we've come to opposing conclusions as to how compliant we are, but the facts stand that we've worked our butts off to return to compliance. And we intend to do so. If the Wikimedia Foundation's ideal conclusion is that non-compliant affiliates ought to disband entirely, then what good is the process in the first place if the idea is to help organizations return to compliance? I'll affirm that we've received a deadline notice. I confirmed that in my last e-mail to this list. The Wikimedia Foundation did give a list of things that we had to fix to return to compliance. We ticked off a number of items from that list, and have conceded in our internal communications that other items can't be ticked off immediately owing to our capacity and asked for more time to that effect. The decision that was ultimately made was for us to lose our status because not everything was met by the deadline, and that was DESPITE everything that we've done at WMPH to meet the deadline to begin with. So no, I will NOT tolerate being told that we did nothing to return to compliance, and by no less than the chair of the Affiliations Committee -- who otherwise I have a deep respect for -- in fact. At the very least, there has to be a concession that we tried. I have not heard that from the other side thus far, and I'm here to make sure that people know that we in fact DID try to return to compliance. Thanks, Josh (P.S.: For those asking, PhilWiki is not affiliated with WMPH. PhilWiki is a splinter group that was founded by a former member of Wikimedia Philippines, and is largely based in the Bicol Region in southern Luzon. WMPH, meanwhile, was based in Manila and had members nationwide.) JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM Block I1, AB Political Science Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582 Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harborhttps://joshlim.me On Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 3:58:48 AM PDT, Ting Chen wing.philopp@gmx.de wrote:Hello Gnangarra,
I joined AffCom in 2015, at that time the issue with Wikimedia Philippines was already on the table. The AffCom and the WMF had tried two years to get a settlement without a de-recognition with them. Meanwhile it is 2017, I don't believe Josh could resolve the problem in the last five hours which the entire Wikimedia Philippines was not able to resolve in the past two years. As I said in my other post, I personally don't think it wise to withhold information, especially obviously the people who would be "protected" don't appreciate being protected. But actually on the decision itself if there is something the AffCom is to be blamed, it is that it took them two years of time to make that hard decision. It was overdue, actually.
Greetings
Ting
Am 25.04.2017 um 11:43 schrieb Gnangarra:
In the original email from Josh he raises some points about still working to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your
response
which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San Francisco it appears that
it
could not be possible for the WMF to have considered and refuted what was raised, especially to say *"The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
details." *I
am concerned about how you can speak so categorically after just 5 hours for the WMF when they arent even awake, especially given it normally
takes
a few days for any official statement from the WMF.
I have no problem with affiliates being deregistered but the process
should
be transparent and it should also be fair, no discussion or response to what Josh raised publically is neither fair nor transparent
Josh response was that WMPH was accountable you could have least given
him
the chance to clarify the availability of the reporting requirements by providing them
On 25 April 2017 at 17:33, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
Hello,
The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are /not /members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a completely different Wikimedia affiliate.
If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues started to appear in 2014, and the chapter was notified back then. More issues accumulated over the time, and a solution was indeed searched for.
Please
elaborate on what "substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation"
means.
1: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PhilWiki_Community
El 25/04/2017 a las 12:16 p.m., Gnangarra escribió:
It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and it should be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two members at
the
recent Wikimedia Conference in Berlin arent there reporting
requirements
attached to eligibility requirements. They are also part of the group organising the ESEA conference in February 2018 along with a number of other affiliates in the region. Those of us who have committed people,
time
and other resources need some clarity as well
While there appears to be some confusion here, Affcom and WMF should at least take some time to clarify the issues especially given its
currently
2am in San Francisco and it was only 9pm when Joshes email was sent.
To me
it appears as if no substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation
of Joshes claims could have taken place to warrant such a harsh
response so
quickly.
On 25 April 2017 at 16:05, Maor Malul <maor_x@zoho.com mailto: maor_x@zoho.com> wrote:
Hello Josh, The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further details of the very serious governance issues in order not to hurt the movement and the reputation of the people involved. Please, avoid misleading and adding drama to this situation -which is already difficult, and damages the movement as a whole. WMPH was given very specific recommendations of what do and what not to do, but decided to go its own way. M. El 25/04/2017 a las 06:17 a.m., Josh Lim escribió: If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being “accountable”, then I have serious doubts about how this process will remain sustainable. I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly demotivating for everyone involved. I’ve been trying to keep myself composed throughout the entire process, but at this point I simply cannot. I will gladly admit that we’ve made mistakes, us more than others. Every organization does. But I will not allow the work that I’ve dedicated over a decade of my life to be thrown out the window because we weren’t “accountable”. To the best of our ability, we WERE accountable to our community and to the movement. And I, frankly, feet that we were as accountable as we could’ve been. You may all want to know why I’ve been silent through this entire process. It’s because I cannot, and I still cannot, process the grief this entire process has brought upon Wikimedia Philippines, and especially myself. I will try to be optimistic about the future, as people have been telling me to do, but at this point in time, at least have some respect for the work that we’ve done over the last six years. That’s really all I’m asking for at this point. Thanks, Josh On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com> <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>>>wrote:
I second Itzik's comments. We need some degree of accountability. Hopefully this will encourage groups in the Philippines to become more active again. James On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel<itzik@wikimedia.org.il <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il> <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>>>wrote: Thank you Maor for the update. We usually love to see our movement expend and welcome recognition of new organizations, but I strongly believe that we continuously need to check and evaluate our current organizations. Our brand, name and reputation are part of our core assets - and while it's not an easy step, I appreciate Affcom efforts notonly to
recognize new ones but also to de-recognize organizations that are not longer active or non-compliance with our movement requirements. Few weeks ago in Berlin we had a first meeting to start discuses what is a "movement accountability" and how we evaluate organizations who operate outside of the FDC process and I believe Affcom have a significant part in it. *Regards,Itzik Edri* Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel +972-54-5878078 <tel:%2B972-54-5878078> |http://www.wikimedia.org.il <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment! On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Maor Malul <maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com> <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>>>wrote:
> * > > Dear all, > > * > > ** > > *Recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate - a chapter, thematic organization, > or user group - allows an independent group to officially use the Wikimedia > name to further the Wikimedia mission, with certain duties and > responsibilities. While most Wikimedia affiliates adhere to the basic > compliance standards set forth in their agreements with the Wikimedia > Foundation, a protocol has been developed toaddress the
exceptional cases > when a Wikimedia affiliate does not meet minimum compliance standards and > their continued recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate presents a risk to the > Wikimedia movement.* > > * > > On September 9, 2016, Wikimedia Philippines was notified of their > suspension as a Wikimedia affiliate due to long standing and serious > governance issues, as well as non-compliance with reporting requirements > which go as back as 2014, has been sent multiple warnings regarding them, > and on the date mentioned above, was provided with an explicit list of > tasks and deadlines in order to return to compliance with their chapter > agreement. The chapter failed to complete these tasks by the deadline of > November 28, 2016, and was consequently notified that they would no longer > be recognized as a Wikimedia chapter after the termination of their Chapter > Agreement on March 1, 2017. It is important to make clear that the > Affiliations Committee will continue to support other organized Wikimedia > communities and their activities in the Philippines. > > If you have questions about what this means for the community members in > their region or language areas, we have put together a very basic FAQ, > which may be found at<https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate_de-recognition_FAQ>https:/
> /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/ <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate
s/> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wi ki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate
s/>> > Affiliate_derecognition_FAQ.* > > > -- > "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua > junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain." > Maor Malul > Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |www.wikimedia.org.ve http://www.wikimedia.org.ve http://www.wikimedia.org.ve/ > <http://wikimedia.org.ve <http://wikimedia.org.ve/
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