No, _verifiability_ can't be different, but _acceptance_ of oral sources
can be different.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland(a)wikimedia.ca
wrote:
> Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.
>
> JP
>
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeblad(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
> > Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create
> > something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content policies.
> > Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
> > The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects
> rewrite
> > world history to focus on their own local view.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com
wrote:
> >
> > > its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's
> culture
> > is
> > > more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
> > >
> > > On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com
wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_,
> but
> > > > there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
> > > > Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
> > > highly
> > > > troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies.
> > > > Armenian genocide for example.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being
> global
> > > > >
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
> > > > >
> > > > > This article explores the relationship between linguistic
culture
> and
> > > the
> > > > > > preferred standards of presenting information based on
article
> > > > > > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research
> analysis
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > number of images, references, internal links, external
links,
> > words,
> > > > and
> > > > > > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and
Featured
> > > articles
> > > > on
> > > > > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity
of
> > > > approaches
> > > > > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We
demonstrate
> > that
> > > > > > high-quality standards in information presentation are not
> globally
> > > > > shared
> > > > > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's
influence
> > determines
> > > > > what
> > > > > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
> > encyclopedic
> > > > > > entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for
> > encyclopedic
> > > > > > knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but
local
> > and
> > > > very
> > > > > > subjective.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk
<zvandijk(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> > > > > > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to
be
> pf
> > > much
> > > > > > importance
> > > > > > Ziko
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3.
Aug. 2017
> um
> > > > > 14:42:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Five pillars are moot.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra
<gnangarra(a)gmail.com
> >
> > >
wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take
away the
> > > ability
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus
from the
> > > community
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the
opportunity
> for
> > > > > banned
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a
community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the
Incubator that
> > are
> > > > > > > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you
give them
> > the
> > > > best
> > > > > > > guide
> > > > > > > > to establishing themselves well before that
project goes
> live,
> > > > ince a
> > > > > > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop
its
> community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis
for the
> > > projects,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating
community
> spends
> > a
> > > > lot
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <
> jeblad(a)gmail.com>
> > > >
wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen
the
> maintenance
> > > and
> > > > > > > > process,
> > > > > > > > > not increase them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu
<
> > strainu10(a)gmail.com>
> > > > >
wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones
pushed by board
> > > > resolution,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum
required to keep the
> > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period.
Otherwise, people with
> > little
> > > > > > > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will
try to push stuff
> > from
> > > > > > en.wp.
> > > > > > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have
an RFC on meta
> on
> > > all
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and
ro.wp does not
> have,
> > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > little consideration on whether the
manpower to
> implement,
> > > let
> > > > > > alone
> > > > > > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No
thank you to rule
> > > pushing
> > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > > > > local context.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from
en.wp is different,
> > just
> > > as
> > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens
within the community
> > about
> > > > it.
> > > > > > > Even
> > > > > > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful
and the
> community
> > > did
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least
it can evolve
> > > > differently
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized
repository and trying
> > to
> > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be
much more difficult
> > for
> > > > > small
> > > > > > > > > > communities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Strainu
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling
Blad <
> > > jeblad(a)gmail.com
> > > > >:
> > > > > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has
virtually the same
> core
> > > > > content
> > > > > > > > > > policies,
> > > > > > > > > > > but with slightly different
wording. Nearly all,
> because
> > a
> > > > lot
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has
outdated or only
> > partial
> > > > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > It
> > > > > > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually
make them and keep them
> > > > > updated.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core
content policies
> should
> > > not
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > that small projects should invest a
lot of time in,
> they
> > > > should
> > > > > > > > simply
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > able to point to existing policies
on Meta. The central
> > > > > policies
> > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > > > > > > > -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/The_no_original_research_
> > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > > -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like
"Verifiability".
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia
Foundation to make
> > some
> > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for
local projects to
> > refine
> > > > > those?
> > > > > > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > > > > > > with assistance from editors on
Wikipedia?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies
accurate, without "no
> > > original
> > > > > > > > research"
> > > > > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of
external sources. It
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > original research in content on
Wikipedia. Likewise, at
> > > some
> > > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > > > > neutral point of view has become
"do not diverge from
> > > > creators
> > > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > view"…
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be
really nice if
> those
> > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > > > policies
> > > > > > > > > > > pages could be copied to the
individual projects like
> > > central
> > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > pages,
> > > > > > > > > > > so they would be
"internal" to the projects. Thus the
> > > > projects
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > more "ownership" of
them.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta
projects (Wikipedia,
> > > > > > Wikibooks,
> > > > > > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > > > > WMAU:
http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > Photo Gallery:
http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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> > > > > --
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> > > > > President Wikimedia Australia
> > > > > WMAU:
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