I agree with Strainu's comments above.
I described some issues with adopting policies and ill-fitting policies under the Community Governance capacity page, in the Community Capacity Development program:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Capacity_Development/Community_gov...
A.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:09 PM Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources
very agree, the intangible sources are a really challenge to way you look at verifiability. Not only are wanting to gather the information and make it possible for others to also access it the very nature of the sources is dynamic and fragile bringing them into a tangible format risks the continuation of knowledge gained, a kin to exposing an ancient paper source to intense UV light.
There is a lot of fantastic work going on around the world on how to "Europeanise" knowledge without destroying it . All of this gets more complex when you learn that knowledge isnt just a few words its part of a multidimensional connection to and in time, place, and circumstances by bringing it into a one dimensional world like Wikipedia is in it self changing the very nature of the knowledge. If our goal is to collect the sum of all knowledge then we need to be free as communities to address the uniqueness of the knowledge we seek within the bounds of culture(language) from which it originates
On 9 August 2017 at 04:12, Jean-Philippe Béland jpbeland@wikimedia.ca wrote:
Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.
JP
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Policy should not have local variations, unless you want to create something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content
policies.
Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of
view.
The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects
rewrite
world history to focus on their own local view.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
its the cultural differences that influence the policy, so who's
culture
is
more significant than everyone elses that will dictate the policies.
On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes there are cultural differences between wikipedias on _content_,
but
there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content. Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that
are
highly
troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core policies. Armenian genocide for example.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being
global
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture
and
the
> preferred standards of presenting information based on article > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research
analysis
of
the > number of images, references, internal links, external links,
words,
and
> characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
articles
on
> the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
approaches
> and format preferences, correlating with culture. We
demonstrate
that
> high-quality standards in information presentation are not
globally
shared > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence
determines
what > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
encyclopedic
> entries. As a result, we demonstrate that standards for
encyclopedic
> knowledge are not globally agreed-upon and “objective” but
local
and
very
> subjective. >
On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com
wrote:
> The number of pillars depends on the language version... > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be
pf
much
> importance > Ziko > > John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com schrieb am Do. 3. Aug.
2017
um
14:42: > > > Five pillars are moot. > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
ability
to
> > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
community
that > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity
for
banned > > and > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community. > > > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator
that
are
> > > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give
them
the
best
> > guide > > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes
live,
ince a
> > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its
community.
> > > > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
projects,
but > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community
spends
a
lot
of > > > time. > > > > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <
jeblad@gmail.com>
wrote: > > > > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the
maintenance
and
> > > process, > > > > not increase them. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
strainu10@gmail.com>
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
resolution,
> and > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep
the
projects > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with
little
> > > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push
stuff
from
> en.wp. > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta
on
all
the > > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not
have,
with
> > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to
implement,
let
> alone > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule
pushing
> > without > > > > > local context. > > > > > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different,
just
as
> long > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community
about
it.
> > Even > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the
community
did
not > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve
differently
> > from > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and
trying
to
change > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more
difficult
for
small > > > > > communities. > > > > > > > > > > Strainu > > > > > > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
jeblad@gmail.com
: > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same
core
content > > > > > policies, > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all,
because
a
lot
of > > the > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only
partial
> > policies. > > > It > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep
them
updated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies
should
not
be > > > > > something > > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in,
they
should
> > > simply > > > > be > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The
central
policies > > > should > > > > > be > > > > > > localized if necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > Checking Meta I find > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/The_no_original_research_
> policy > > > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > > > > > > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability". > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make
some
sound > > > > baseline > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to
refine
those? > > > > Perhaps > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no
original
> > > research" > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It
should
be
> > about > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise,
at
some
> > projects > > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from
creators
> > point > > > of > > > > > > view"… > > > > > > > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if
those
baseline > > > > > policies > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like
central
> user > > > > pages, > > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the
projects
> > would > > > > have > > > > > > more "ownership" of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects
(Wikipedia,
> Wikibooks, > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeblad > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
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