Verifiability can be very different. For example oral sources.
JP
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017, 05:20 John Erling Blad, <jeblad(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Policy should not have local variations, unless you
want to create
something different from Wikipedia. This is about core content policies.
Those are no original research, verifiability, and neutral point of view.
The one most don't follow is neutral point of view, where projects rewrite
world history to focus on their own local view.
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:20 AM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
its the cultural differences that influence the
policy, so who's culture
is
more significant than everyone elses that will
dictate the policies.
On 8 August 2017 at 08:14, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes there are cultural differences between
wikipedias on _content_, but
there should be no differences on _policy_ about that content.
Note also that there are some differences on use of _facts_ that are
highly
troublesome, and that comes from relaxed core
policies.
Armenian genocide for example.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> to quote, worth a read before even considering policies being global
>
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/asi.23901/abstract
>
> This article explores the relationship between linguistic culture and
the
> > preferred standards of presenting
information based on article
> > representation in major Wikipedias. Using primary research analysis
of
> > the
> > > number of images, references, internal links, external links,
words,
and
> > characters, as well as their proportions in Good and Featured
articles
> on
> > > the eight largest Wikipedias, we discover a high diversity of
> approaches
> > > and format preferences, correlating with culture. We demonstrate
that
> > > high-quality standards in
information presentation are not globally
> > shared
> > > and that in many aspects, the language culture's influence
determines
> > what
> > > is perceived to be proper, desirable, and exemplary for
encyclopedic
> > > entries. As a result, we
demonstrate that standards for
encyclopedic
> > > knowledge are not globally
agreed-upon and “objective” but local
and
very
> > subjective.
> >
>
> On 4 August 2017 at 10:18, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The number of pillars depends on the language version...
> > And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf
much
>
importance
> Ziko
>
> John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com> schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um
14:42:
>
> > Five pillars are moot.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the
ability
to
> > > > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the
community
> > that
> > > > > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for
> > banned
> > > > and
> > > > > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> > > > >
> > > > > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that
are
> > > > > atuomatically created
when a project starts up you give them
the
best
> > guide
> > > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live,
ince
a
> > > > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> > > >
> > > > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the
projects,
> > but
> > > > > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends
a
lot
> of
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > > > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance
and
> > > > > process,
> > > > > > not increase them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu <
strainu10(a)gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board
> resolution,
> > > and
> > > > > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep
the
> > projects
> > > > > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with
little
> > > > > > > understanding
of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff
from
> >
en.wp.
> > > > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on
all
the
> > > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have,
with
> > > > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement,
let
> > alone
> > > > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule
pushing
> > > > without
> > > > > > > local context.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is
different,
just
as
> > > long
> > > > > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the
community
about
it.
> > > Even
> > > > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community
did
> > not
> > > > > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve
> differently
> > > > from
> > > > > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and
trying
to
> > change
> > > > > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more
difficult
for
>
small
> > > > > > communities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strainu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad <
jeblad(a)gmail.com
> >:
> > > > > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the
same core
> > content
> > > > > > > policies,
> > > > > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all,
because
a
> lot
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or
only
partial
> >
> policies.
> > > > It
> > > > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep
them
> updated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies
should
not
be
> > > > > something
> > > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they
should
> > > > simply
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The
central
> policies
> > > > should
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > > > -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/The_no_original_research_
> > > policy
> > > > > > > > -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't find anything like
"Verifiability".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to
make
some
> > sound
> > > > > > baseline
> > > > > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects
to
refine
>
those?
> > > > > Perhaps
> > > > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without
"no
original
> > > > > research"
> > > > > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources.
It
should
be
> > > about
> > > > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise,
at
some
> >
projects
> > > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from
creators
> > > point
> > > > of
> > > > > > > view"…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if
those
> baseline
> > > > > > policies
> > > > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like
central
>
user
> > > > pages,
> > > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus
the
projects
> > > would
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects
(Wikipedia,
> > Wikibooks,
> > > > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > --
> > > GN.
> > > President Wikimedia Australia
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