Hi all,
As following the previous email from Galder, I completely agree that this topic -if there
is a trust in the work of Wikipedians and their communities, which I am sure we all do-
should be primarily debated, if not fully, in the corresponding linguistical version of
Wikipedia. As Jane and Risker said, there are several Wikiprojects in which users
centralize these discussions and tackle these topics.
The starting point from which someone may consider that the US election topic is an
"international issue" that allows it to be more thoroughly debated in this list
regarding Wikipedia's content than other similar ones, or that must be an example of
coverage for the rest, is for me another (already too) common US-centrism that I think we
should avoid here.
Thank you for understanding it,
Xavier Dengra
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
El dimarts, 21 de setembre 2021 a les 3:53 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> va
escriure:
I do feel US elections and their coverage is an
international issue, especially in light of recent events that threaten democracy and
could indirectly affect things like copyright on the internet. I do share concerns about
“social media events” and it would be helpful to spell out how these could be covered in
an encyclopedia when social media is not considered a reliable source for an article. Add
to that a decline in subscriptions to local newspapers (I believe this is not only a US
issue but an international problem) as well as geoblocking content of national newspapers
and you have major issues with updates to Wikipedia election articles anywhere. I have no
idea how to tackle these issues but have complete confidence in the various
election-related WikiProjects so if there’s such a project on meta maybe they have already
joined forces on this.
Jane
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 21, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> What is painfully obvious is the bias that exists. For countries in Africa we do not
even know all the government ministers past and present for the last 70 years let alone
that we know about past elections. At that, it is fine with me that subjects like this are
raised.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 09:19, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
<galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would add to the idea that this is an international mailing list where most of
the users are not from the US the idea that there are other Wikipedias around that are not
in English, so the coverage of details of the US elections at the English Wikipedia should
be discussed... at the English Wikipedia.
>>
>> Thanks for your understanding.
>>
>> Galder
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:14 AM
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections
>>
>> There are already wikiprojects on English Wikipedia that work on elections.[1][2]
I suggest you might want to continue this conversation there, with people who have a
strong interest in US elections, and a good grasp on what is and is not likely to make a
successful article. As noted before, this is an international mailing list, and there are
better places to talk about American politics.
>>
>> Oh...incidentally. That photo had no impact at all. The election was yesterday,
and the results were pretty much as predicted at least a week ago; there were no
surprises.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>>
[
1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory/His…
>> [2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_president…
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 01:45, Adam Sobieski <adamsobieski(a)hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> In the recent Canadian federal election [1], there was a last-minute
happening [2] in the news and on social media [3] which seems difficult to precisely
attribute to a responsible party. It appears that one or more photographs were leaked to a
news organization which probably does not want to reveal their source. I am thinking about
how best to include such complex events and happenings in encyclopedia articles about
election-related strategies, tactics, events, and happenings.
>>>
>>> On the topic of US election-related encyclopedia articles, I think that it
will be easier and that there will be more interested Wikimedians as the next election
season approaches (2022) or, perhaps, as the next Presidential election season approaches
(2024). Then, instead of exploring news archives, interested Wikimedians could add
relevant events and happenings to encyclopedia articles as they occur.
>>>
>>> My current plan for improving Wikipedia’s overall election coverage includes
participating, alongside interested others, in US 2024 Presidential election-related
encyclopedia articles so that the quality of these prominent encyclopedia articles might
inspire the broader community with regard to covering subsequent elections. If anyone has
a better plan, please let me know.
>>>
>>> If there is interest, perhaps we could organize a community project, a
Wikiproject [4] or a Task Force [5], to think about and to discuss these topics – and,
perhaps, to collaborate to build templates or prototypes of enhanced election coverage –
en route to 2024.
>>>
>>> In the interim, I can see whether I can find enough content to create and
structure articles about these topics pertaining to recent US Presidential elections (2016
and 2020).
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> [1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election
>>>
>>> [2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise
>>>
>>> [3]
https://torontosun.com/news/election-2021/lilley-another-blackface-photo-em…
>>>
>>> [4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject
>>>
>>> [5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide/Task_forc…
>>>
>>> From: [Eduardo Testart](mailto:etestart@gmail.com)
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:31 PM
>>> To: [Wikimedia Mailing List](mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org)
>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections
>>>
>>> Hi Adam,
>>>
>>> If this is a subject you care about, you are probably the right person to
start writing those articles you would like to see.
>>>
>>> If you wait to see "how Wikimedians choose to create and structure
them", you might very well never see the articles come to life.
>>>
>>> It's never too late to start editing 😉
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> El dom., 19 de sep. de 2021 09:55, Adam Sobieski
<adamsobieski(a)hotmail.com> escribió:
>>>
>>>> Thank you. It is interesting to consider how a more granular coverage of
elections, coverage which includes notable mass media events, e.g., news stories and
social media events, caused by and/or strategically reacted to by political campaigns,
parties, and organizations, coverage which includes election tactics and strategies, can
enhance Wikipedia and provide its readers with fuller pictures of elections.
>>>>
>>>> I am starting to think about possibilities with respect to these new
articles. I am looking forward to seeing how Wikimedians choose to create and structure
them. A hope is that future elections will improve as a result.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>> From: [Risker](mailto:risker.wp@gmail.com)
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:51 PM
>>>> To: [Wikimedia Mailing List](mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org)
>>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections
>>>>
>>>> Hello Adam -
>>>>
>>>> This looks like a series of articles that could reasonably be made about
the elections of any country: for example, "Election tactics in the 2000 US
Presidential election" or "Election tactics in the 1986 British House of Commons
election" or whatever. Draft space is right there waiting for you or others to create
the articles. I'm sure for many of these elections there will be lots of available
reference sources, both contemporaneous and in terms of historical research. It will be
important to ensure that no political bias is introduced into the articles. Of course,
there is also the question of whether these tactics had any effect on the outcome of any
given election, and what that effect was; again, that will probably need reference sources
from independent academic researchers and books.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, this is an international list; at least half of the people
who post here live and work in countries outside of the United States. I am uncomfortable
to see Wikimedians referred to as "we, the American people", and I hope that you
will reconsider that kind of approach toward any project. Even English Wikipedia, which I
assume is your target audience here, is edited more by people outside the US than those
inside it.
>>>>
>>>> Risker/Anne
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 Sept 2021 at 14:50, Adam Sobieski
<adamsobieski(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wikimedia,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a psephological and election historical observation that I
would like to share with Wikimedia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Low-brow, crass, and manipulative political advertising and
marketing, various hot-button, third-rail, dog-whistle, and wedge issues, have been
deployed by candidates, campaigns, and political actors and organizations during American
election seasons. These tactics are very much a part of our elections and appear to be
subsequently omitted from encyclopedic (e.g., Wikipedia) and historical coverage of the
elections (e.g., 2000 – 2020).
>>>>>
>>>>> How low have election campaigns gone? Very. Yet, for some reasons,
American encyclopedists and historians appear to be almost complicit, glossing over these
problematic election campaign tactics. Each historical election appears to be reduced to a
single encyclopedia article or small cluster of such articles, only some such articles
attempt to list election issues, and no such article mentions campaign advertising and
marketing themes and tactics deployed by campaigns, political actors, and organizations on
radio, television, the Web, or social media.
>>>>>
>>>>> I propose that encyclopedists, scholars, and scientists seek to
attend to, remember, and record election campaign mass media tactics and manipulations
lest we, the American people, be doomed to repeat them in future elections. Perhaps by
remembering the election campaign advertising and marketing tactics utilized, including on
social media, and listing them encyclopedically, a buoyant pressure can be created with
which to elevate our American politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your time and for considering these ideas with which to
improve encyclopedic coverage of American elections.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam Sobieski
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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