Hello Ciell,
These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe anyone
has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular.
Todd
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <ciell.wikipedia(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this
thread on the English language Wikipedia alone.
Ciell
Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <aronmanning5(a)gmail.com>om>:
As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out
of thousands) in the ToU
for WMF
<
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re…
discussion,
I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct)
should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.
However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should
be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented:
will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing
toxicity?
Just my thoughts.
Aron
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded
> from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
> process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.
> This has to be fixed now. It is
difficult to fix, because there are
already
> too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do
> whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
> On the other hand, there was no real
RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I
am
> not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the
English
> Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair,
were very vocal about this.
But
people
become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,
continue
to advocate that we should fork from the existing
project and this
forking
is the only way forward. People say many things,
and we have community
processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for
the
draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24
august. If many people
think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on
the
> projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For
these
RfCs to
happen, but for this people should really follow the process,
read
the draft and see what the consequences are. If
online communities are
not
> involved in this process either, then things will go over and over
again
-
> UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
> high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and
complete
> denial by WMF managers. We have been there
and we do not want this
> happening again.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> mail(a)anderswennersten.se>
> wrote:
>
> > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it
your
> > privilege. But the fact is that the
Strategy is the steering
document
> > now for the nearest activities in the
Movement. And the endorsments
are
> > there to be read.
> >
> > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
> > you missed to express that in an appropriate moment.
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> > > statements.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > mail(a)anderswennersten.se>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Read
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different
phases
> > >>
> > >> Anders
> > >>
> > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"
participated
> in?
> > >> The
> > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm
"No".
>
>>>
> >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> >>>
> >>> Todd
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> >> mail(a)anderswennersten.se>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy.
The
> > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > representing
> > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the
> closest
> > we
> > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as
in
a
>>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it
does
> >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is
the
> > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely
involve
> all
> > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anders
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of
Conduct. There
> > shouldn't
> > >>>> be a
> > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was
disapproved.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Todd
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger
<
> > >>>>> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of
Conduct
> drafting
> > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers
apply,
either
> by
> > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an
email.
> > >> Volunteers
> > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11
different
> > languages.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of
experience
>
>>>> on-wiki,
> >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people
who
have
>>
been
>>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000
edits.
> >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the
movement,
> > and
> > >>>> also
> > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences
in
their
> > >>>> real-life
> > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this
diverse and
> > >> extremely
> > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the
decision
making
-
> we
> > >>>> want a
> > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent
important parts
of
> the
> > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians
whose
strength
> is
> > >>>> more in
> > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different
demographics,
> > >> contributors
> > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding
different roles
> > within
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will
collaborate
> with
> > >> one
> > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible
Universal
Code
of
>>>> Conduct
>>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
committees
> >>>> that
> >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we
decided
> to
> >>>> cap
> >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff
seats.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can
be
found
on
>>>> Meta
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > >>>>>> [1], and a
timeline for their work is available on the main
UCoC
>
page
> >>>>>>
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>
[2].
>>
Please
>>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
>> community
>>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Christel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>>>> [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
_______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>