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Christel Steigenberger

30 Jul 2020 30 Jul '20

7:48 p.m.

Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community draft review period starting from August 24. Best regards, Christel [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct Christel Steigenberger (she/her) Trust and Safety Specialist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>

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Peter Southwood

30 Jul 30 Jul

8:24 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community draft review period starting from August 24. Best regards, Christel [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct Christel Steigenberger (she/her) Trust and Safety Specialist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

Gerard Meijssen

8:45 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hoi, So what is your alternative, what do you have as an alternative? Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:

...

Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

[1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community draft review period starting from August 24. Best regards, Christel [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct Christel Steigenberger (she/her) Trust and Safety Specialist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Peter Southwood

1 Aug 1 Aug

8:28 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Alternative to what? Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 30 July 2020 20:46 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hoi, So what is your alternative, what do you have as an alternative? Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:

...

Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

Bobby Shabangu

30 Jul 30 Jul

9:40 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Dear Christel, Congratulations. We will be following developments closely and wishing the committee all the best. Kind regards, Bobby Shabangu On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:

...

Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

Rajeeb Dutta

31 Jul 31 Jul

4:51 a.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Dear Christel, Thanks for the update. I like to conga the new committee and wish the best. Best Regards, Rajeeb. (U: Marajozkee) (Sent from my iPhone pardon the brevity)

...

On 31-Jul-2020, at 1:11 AM, Bobby Shabangu <bobbyshabangu(a)gmail.com> wrote: Dear Christel, Congratulations. We will be following developments closely and wishing the committee all the best. Kind regards, Bobby Shabangu

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote: Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49 To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

Todd Allen

4:28 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Uh, guys? That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't be a "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. Todd On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Dan Garry (Deskana)

4:56 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 15:29, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't be a "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.

It's not clear to me what you're referring to here. What is the "that" that was a "firm no"? Dan

Todd Allen

5:37 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

It was a "no" to having any type of universal code of conduct. You can see the discussion here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re… On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:57 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) <djgwiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 15:29, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't

be a

"drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.

It's not clear to me what you're referring to here. What is the "that" that was a "firm no"? Dan _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

masti

1 Aug 1 Aug

5:18 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Could You evaluate how You came to the firm NO? I cannot see it from the link You provided masti On 31.07.2020 17:37, Todd Allen wrote:

...

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 15:29, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't

be a

"drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.

Anders Wennersten

31 Jul 31 Jul

5:17 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the best way we know how to come to a decision. And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all parties being effected by it Anders Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:

...

Hello everyone, We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki, from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely qualified pool of applicants. For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community draft review period starting from August 24. Best regards, Christel [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct Christel Steigenberger (she/her) Trust and Safety Specialist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Todd Allen

5:28 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in? The one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <mail(a)anderswennersten.se> wrote:

...

Uh, guys? That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't

be a

"drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. Todd On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting > committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by > publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers > from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. > > We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience

on-wiki,

> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been > editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. > Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and

also

> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their

real-life

> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely > qualified pool of applicants. > > For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we

want a

> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the > movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is

Meta

> < >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Todd Allen

5:38 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual statements. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <mail(a)anderswennersten.se> wrote:

...

Read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases Anders Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:

Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in?

The

one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <

mail(a)anderswennersten.se>

wrote: > The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The > strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing > more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we > have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a > democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does > not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the > best way we know how to come to a decision. > > And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all > parties being effected by it > > Anders > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: >> Uh, guys? >> >> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't > be a >> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. >> >> Todd >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < >> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> >>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting >>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by >>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.

Volunteers

>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages. >>> >>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience > on-wiki, >>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have

been

>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. >>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and > also >>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their > real-life >>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and

extremely

>>> qualified pool of applicants. >>> >>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we > want a >>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the >>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is > more in >>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,

contributors

>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within > the >>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with

one

>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of > Conduct >>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees > that >>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to > cap >>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. >>> >>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on > Meta >>> < >>> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].

Please

>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the

community

>>> draft review period starting from August 24. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Christel >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct >>> >>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her) >>> >>> Trust and Safety Specialist >>> >>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

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Anders Wennersten

5:55 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are there to be read. If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc, you missed to express that in an appropriate moment. Anders (This being my third entry, it will be my last) Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:

...

I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual statements. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <mail(a)anderswennersten.se> wrote:

Read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases Anders Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:

Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in?

The

one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <

mail(a)anderswennersten.se>

Volunteers

been

extremely

contributors

>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within > the >>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with

one

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].

Please

>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the

community

>>> draft review period starting from August 24. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Christel >>> >>> [1] >>> >>>

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

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Yaroslav Blanter

6:11 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities. This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are already too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group. On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I am not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the English Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. But people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example, continue to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this forking is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community processes to see what is consensus and what is not. In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for the draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on the projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For these RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process, read the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are not involved in this process either, then things will go over and over again - UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and complete denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this happening again. Best Yaroslav On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <mail(a)anderswennersten.se> wrote:

...

I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual statements. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <

mail(a)anderswennersten.se>

wrote: > Read

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20

> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases > > Anders > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: >> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in? > The >> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". >> >> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. >> >> Todd >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> >> wrote: >> >>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The >>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals

representing

>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest

>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a >>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does >>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the >>> best way we know how to come to a decision. >>> >>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all >>> parties being effected by it >>> >>> Anders >>> >>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: >>>> Uh, guys? >>>> >>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There

shouldn't

>>> be a >>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. >>>> >>>> Todd >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < >>>> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting >>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by >>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. > Volunteers >>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different

languages.

>>>>> >>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience >>> on-wiki, >>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have > been >>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. >>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement,

and

>>> also >>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their >>> real-life >>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and > extremely >>>>> qualified pool of applicants. >>>>> >>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we >>> want a >>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the >>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is >>> more in >>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > contributors >>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles

within

>>> the >>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with > one >>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of >>> Conduct >>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees >>> that >>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided

>>> cap >>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. >>>>> >>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found

>>> Meta >>>>> < >>>>> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC

page

>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. > Please >>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the > community >>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Christel >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> >>>>> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct >>>>> >>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her) >>>>> >>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist >>>>> >>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

> , >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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Aron Manning

6:25 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU for WMF <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF> discussion, I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct) should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers. However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should be no Code of Conduct for the communities. I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented: will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing toxicity? Just my thoughts. Aron On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual statements. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <

mail(a)anderswennersten.se>

wrote: > Read

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases >> >> Anders >> >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated

in?

> The >> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". >> >> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. >> >> Todd >> >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> >> wrote: >> >>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The >>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals

representing >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the

closest

we >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it

does

>>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. >>>> >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve

all

>>> parties being effected by it >>> >>> Anders >>> >>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: >>>> Uh, guys? >>>> >>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There

shouldn't >>>> be a >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. >>>>> >>>>> Todd >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < >>>>> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct

drafting

>>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either

>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. > Volunteers >>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different

languages. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience >>>> on-wiki, >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have >> been >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000

edits.

>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement,

and >>>> also >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their >>>> real-life >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and >> extremely >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. >>>>>> >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making -

>>>> want a >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of

the

>>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength

>>> more in >>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > contributors >>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles

within >>>> the >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate

with

>> one >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of >>>> Conduct >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that

committees

>>> that >>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided

>>> cap >>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. >>>>> >>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found

>>> Meta >>>>> < >>>>> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC

page

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

> , >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe:

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>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Ciell Wikipedia

7:07 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hi, Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this thread on the English language Wikipedia alone. Ciell Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <aronmanning5(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU for WMF < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re…

discussion, I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct) should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers. However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should be no Code of Conduct for the communities. I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented: will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing toxicity? Just my thoughts. Aron On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.

> This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are already > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.

> On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I am

not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the English Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. But people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,

continue

to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this

forking > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community > processes to see what is consensus and what is not.

> In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for the

draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on

the

projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For these RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process,

read

the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are

not

involved in this process either, then things will go over and over again

- > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and complete > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this > happening again.

> Best > Yaroslav

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten < > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > wrote:

> > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your > > privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are > > there to be read. >

> > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc, > > you missed to express that in an appropriate moment. >

> > Anders >

> > (This being my third entry, it will be my last) >

> > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen: > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual > > > statements. > >

> > > Todd > >

> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten < > > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > wrote: > >

> > >> Read > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases > > >> > > >> Anders > > >> > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated > in? > > >> The > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No". > > >>> > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. > > >>> > > >>> Todd > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > > >> mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The

>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals

representing >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the

closest > we > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in

>>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it

does > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is

the

>>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. >>>> >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve

all

>>> parties being effected by it >>> >>> Anders >>> >>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: >>>> Uh, guys? >>>> >>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There

drafting

>>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either

by > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. > >> Volunteers > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different > languages. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience > >>>> on-wiki, > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who

have

>> been >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000

edits. > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the

movement,

> and > >>>> also > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their > >>>> real-life > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and > >> extremely > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making

>>>> want a >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of

the

>>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength

>>> more in >>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > contributors >>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles

within >>>> the >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate

with > >> one > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code

>>>> Conduct >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that

committees > >>>> that > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we

decided

> to > >>>> cap > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be

found > > on > > >>>> Meta > > >>>>>> < > > >>>>>> > > >> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC > page > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>

[2]. > > >> Please > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the > > >> community > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Best regards, > > >>>>>> Christel > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> [1] > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

> , >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Todd Allen

7:36 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hello Ciell, These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe anyone has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <ciell.wikipedia(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU for WMF <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re…

> On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I am > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the

English

> Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this.

But

people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,

continue

to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this

forking

is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community processes to see what is consensus and what is not. In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for

the

draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on

the > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For

these

RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process,

read

the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are

not > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over

again

- > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and

complete

> denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this > happening again. > > Best > Yaroslav > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten < > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > wrote: > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it

your

> > privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering

document

> > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments

are

> > there to be read. > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc, > > you missed to express that in an appropriate moment. > > > > Anders > > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last) > > > > > > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen: > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual > > > statements. > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten < > > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Read > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different

phases

> > >> > > >> Anders > > >> > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"

participated

> in? > > >> The > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm

"No".

> >>> > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. > >>> > >>> Todd > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > >> mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy.

The > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals > > representing > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the > closest > > we > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as

>>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it

does > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is

the > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. > > >>>> > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely

involve

> all > > >>>> parties being effected by it > > >>>> > > >>>> Anders > > >>>> > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > >>>>> Uh, guys? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There > > shouldn't > > >>>> be a > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Todd > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < > > >>>>> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hello everyone, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct > drafting > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply,

either

> by > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. > > >> Volunteers > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different > > languages. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of

experience

> >>>> on-wiki, > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who

have

>> been >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000

edits. > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the

movement, > > and > > >>>> also > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in

their

> > >>>> real-life > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and > > >> extremely > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision

making

- > we > > >>>> want a > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts

> the > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose

strength

> is > > >>>> more in > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > > >> contributors > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles > > within > > >>>> the > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will

collaborate

> with > > >> one > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal

Code

>>>> Conduct >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that

committees > >>>> that > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we

decided

> to > >>>> cap > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be

found

on >>>> Meta >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main

UCoC

> page > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>

[2].

>> Please >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the >> community >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Christel >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

>>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct >>>>>> >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her) >>>>>> >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Ciell Wikipedia

8:23 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Yaroslav did, and again the Framwiki case was mentioned. And while I do realise this bruised and scarred the relationship between the English community and the WMF, please realise the UCoC could benefit a lot of other communities. Those who are not vocal on this list, and are just the silent readers. Those who maybe do not even know this list exists, or do not read because of English not being their first language. Those who have been struggling to keep their wiki on track maybe, and do not have the time or knowledge to design and agree on behavioural ground rules. Or in countries where the volunteer work we do even might be dangerous, so they just try to stick to writing. The UCoC could benefit the whole movement, so please keep a global perspective on this. And yes: I do agree we as volunteers deserve to give our input, and we deserve to be heard. But I do think we will get our chance. For now, it will be up to the writers to start a draft. Give them time to set this up properly. Ciell Op vr 31 jul. 2020 19:36 schreef Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

ToU

for WMF <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re…

> > > discussion, > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of

Conduct)

> should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers. > > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there

should

> be no Code of Conduct for the communities. > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be

implemented:

> will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing > toxicity? > > > Just my thoughts. > Aron > > > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were

excluded

> > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities. > > > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are > already > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to

> > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group. > > > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at

least I

am > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the

English

> Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this.

But > > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example, > continue > > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this > forking > > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have

community

> > processes to see what is consensus and what is not. > > > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait

for

> the > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many

people

> > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or

the > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For

these > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process, > read > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities

are

not > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over

again

- > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and

complete

your

> > privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering

document

> > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments

are > > > there to be read. > > > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a

Rfc,

> > > you missed to express that in an appropriate moment. > > > > > > Anders > > > > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last) > > > > > > > > > > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen: > > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any

individual

> > > > statements. > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten < > > > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Read > > >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20

> > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different

phases

> > >> > > >> Anders > > >> > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"

participated

> in? > > >> The > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm

"No". > > > >>> > > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count. > > > >>> > > > >>> Todd > > > >>> > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten < > > > >> mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the

Strategy.

in > a > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision,

> > does > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But

the > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. > > >>>> > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely

involve

either > > by > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an

email.

> > >> Volunteers > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different > > languages. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of

experience > > > >>>> on-wiki, > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people

who

have

> >> been > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits. > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the

movement, > > and > > >>>> also > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in

their > > > >>>> real-life > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse

and

> > >> extremely > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision

making > - > > we > > > >>>> want a > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important

parts

> the > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose

strength > > is > > > >>>> more in > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, > > > >> contributors > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different

roles

> > within > > >>>> the > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will

collaborate

> with > > >> one > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal

Code

> >>>> Conduct > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees > >>>> that > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we

decided

> to > >>>> cap > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be

found

> on > >>>> Meta > >>>>>> < > >>>>>> > >> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main

UCoC > > > page > > > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> > [2]. > > > >> Please > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during

the

> >> community > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best regards, > >>>>>> Christel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> [1] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >> >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> > > >>>>>> [2]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct

> > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her) > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines

and

> > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > >> , > > > >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>>>> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>>> Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >>> Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

> > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org

?subject=unsubscribe>

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Isaac Olatunde

8:48 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

I agree with Cieli. I have had the privilege to speak to people offline to get their view on the proposed UCoc. This includes people on this list who are not native speakers of the English language and not willing to openly engage in a discussion about it. Many of them are interested in seeing the draft. We can't speak on their behalf here or anywhere else and we can't assume they share our feelings or thought. Every contributor matter, regardless of the language they choose to contribute to and I think we should respect that. I look forward to reading the draft and possibly providing feedback. Good luck to the drafting committee and the WMF staffers who are involved in this process. With kind regards Isaac On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:24 Ciell Wikipedia, <ciell.wikipedia(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hello Ciell, These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe

anyone

has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular. Todd On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia < ciell.wikipedia(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus

this

thread on the English language Wikipedia alone. Ciell Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <aronmanning5(a)gmail.com

> As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the

ToU

for WMF <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Re…

> > > discussion, > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of

Conduct)

> should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers. > > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there

should

> be no Code of Conduct for the communities. > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be

implemented: > > will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for

addressing

> toxicity? > > > Just my thoughts. > Aron > > > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were

excluded > > > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on

the

> > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing

communities.

> > > > > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are > > already > > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying

> > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group. > > > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at

least I > > am > > > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the > English > > > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about

this.

community

> > processes to see what is consensus and what is not. > > > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait

for

> the > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many

people

> > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or

on > > the > > > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For > these > > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the

process,

> read > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities

are > > not > > > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over > again > > - > > > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple

> > > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and > complete > > > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this > > > happening again. > > > > > > Best > > > Yaroslav > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten < > > > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it

> your > > > > privilege. But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering > document > > > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the

endorsments

are > > > there to be read. > > > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a

Rfc,

individual

> > > > statements. > > > > > > > > Todd > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten < > > > mail(a)anderswennersten.se> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Read > > >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20

> > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different

phases

> > >> > > >> Anders > > >> > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"

participated

> in? > > >> The > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm

Strategy. > > The > > > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals > > > > representing > > > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is

the

> > > closest > > > > we > > > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But

> in > > a > > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a

decision,

it > > > does > > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree.

But

is > > the > > > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely > involve > > > all > > > > >>>> parties being effected by it > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Anders > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen: > > > > >>>>> Uh, guys? > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct.

There

> > > > shouldn't > > > > >>>> be a > > > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Todd > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger < > > > > >>>>> csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hello everyone, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of

Conduct

> drafting > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply,

either > > by > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an

email.

> > >> Volunteers > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different > > languages. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of

experience > > > >>>> on-wiki, > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people

who > > have > > > > >> been > > > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than

300,000

> edits. > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, > > and > > >>>> also > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in

their > > > >>>> real-life > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse

and

> > >> extremely > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision

making > - > > we > > > >>>> want a > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important

parts > of > > > the > > > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose > strength > > > is > > > > >>>> more in > > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different

demographics,

> > > >> contributors > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different

roles > > > > within > > > > >>>> the > > > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will > collaborate > > > with > > > > >> one > > > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal > Code > > of > > > > >>>> Conduct > > > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that > > > committees > > > > >>>> that > > > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we > > decided > > > > to > > > > >>>> cap > > > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff

seats.

> > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can

found > > on > > >>>> Meta > > >>>>>> < > > >>>>>> > > >> > > >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> > > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the

main

> UCoC > > > > page > > > > >>>>>> <

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>

> [2]. > > > >> Please > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during

the

> > >> community > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Best regards, > > >>>>>> Christel > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> [1] > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> > > >

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

> > > >>>>>> [2]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct

and > > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > >>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > >> , > > > > >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines

and

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Ziko van Dijk

1 Aug 1 Aug

3:10 p.m.

New subject: Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hello, All the best to the people involved, it is an important endeavour. Of course, we are all curious about results. Kind regards Ziko Am Do., 30. Juli 2020 um 19:49 Uhr schrieb Christel Steigenberger <csteigenberger(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

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participants (14)

Anders Wennersten
Aron Manning
Bobby Shabangu
Christel Steigenberger
Ciell Wikipedia
Dan Garry (Deskana)
Gerard Meijssen
Isaac Olatunde
masti
Peter Southwood
Rajeeb Dutta
Todd Allen
Yaroslav Blanter
Ziko van Dijk