Dan Rosenthal writes:
> I would ask from a range of contractors, from companies like Centurion
> Risk Assessment Services, 3D Global Solutions, or MVM Inc.
Are you saying you would hire all of them to do risk assessments?
> Listing
> prices and service options is up to the foundation, not me.
Sometimes investigating prices and service options is a good way to
find out what you can realistically afford. It's also helpful to
remember that neither the Foundation's money nor its personnel are
limitless, whereas this community prides itself on making collective
contributions, so it seems appropriate to ask anyone who takes the
time to repeat criticisms again and again to devote a little of that
time to something more constructive.
Here's what would be a bad expenditure for us -- if we spend more
money on outside services (potentially a lot more money), and it
doesn't settle anything regarding Alexandria's plans because there's
nothing some critics will except. If the real argument is "I'm never
going to accept any positive assessment of a conference site
Alexandria," then shouldn't we be discussing the real argument rather
than spending more money on a side issue? This is a serious question.
> As for
> who's opinion I would accept, I would accept anyone's opinion BUT the
> local team. As others have stated, they have a vested interest in
> Wikimania, and therefore are more inclined to say "yes yes, no
> problem" when in fact, there is a problem.
And this is not true of the Egyptian Consulate, in your view?
Are there questions, other than the one in the FAQ, that we should
have asked, or should be asking? I tried to synthesize the concerns
from the foundation-l list, but there was so much traffic, much of it
unhelpful or unconstructive one-liners, that it was difficult to be
certain every concern was covered.
--Mike
--Mike
Guillaume writes:
> Thank you Mike for this FAQ. However, it seems to me this is the
> result of an "internal" assessment conducted by Foundation employees,
> with the help of local organizers.
I'm not sure what you mean by "internal" here, but I consulted with a
number of outside experts with relevant experience. I expect to
continue consulting with them and others as the conference gets
nearer. The focus on the local team's responses in the FAQ reflects
the Egyptian consulate's advice -- that all international conferences
work with their local partners to get local advice about how to reduce
risk.
--Mike
Unfortuantely, I will have to agree with Dan. Asking people with a vested interest is never a good idea. I would recommend hitting up a travel agent/academic expert/security consultant specializing in the Middle East for information that should be incorporated. Also, I wouldn't have blind faith in the police in a third world country.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Godwin <mgodwin(a)wikimedia.org>
To: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 8:35:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] (Flashback) A short (and revised) FAQ about Wikimania in Alexandria
Dan Rosenthal writes:
> No, I expect an adequate security assessment that goes beyond asking
> people with a vested interest in seeing the event happen smoothly.
> The local team has a humongous conflict of interest here. Their "say
> so" on whether something is safe is inherently unacceptable.
Okay, identify whom would ask or hire, whose security assessment you
would accept (even if you don't agree with the results), and who will
charge you (or the Foundation) a price you would accept, and that the
Foundation could afford. Please list prices and available service
options.
If you are expert enough to find fault with an FAQ that I published
without negative feedback on this list several weeks ago, surely you
can answer this one small request.
--Mike
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Dan Rosenthal writes:
> No, I expect an adequate security assessment that goes beyond asking
> people with a vested interest in seeing the event happen smoothly.
> The local team has a humongous conflict of interest here. Their "say
> so" on whether something is safe is inherently unacceptable.
Okay, identify whom would ask or hire, whose security assessment you
would accept (even if you don't agree with the results), and who will
charge you (or the Foundation) a price you would accept, and that the
Foundation could afford. Please list prices and available service
options.
If you are expert enough to find fault with an FAQ that I published
without negative feedback on this list several weeks ago, surely you
can answer this one small request.
--Mike
Geoffrey Plurde writes:
> Asking people with a vested interest is never a good idea.
In my view, this is nonsense. It's best to ask people with all sorts
of points of view.
> I would recommend hitting up a travel agent/academic expert/security
> consultant specializing in the Middle East for information that
> should be incorporated.
We have consulted a range of experts, and may consult more. We are
keeping track of current reports as well.
> Also, I wouldn't have blind faith in the police in a third world
> country.
I don't have blind faith in the police of any country.
Mark Williamson writes:
> I have to agree with Dan as well, and do not think it is reasonable
> that Mike ask Dan to do the job for him.
I was quite careful not to ask Dan to *do* anything. I asked him a
precise question based on his posted criticism that we were wrong to
ask the local team for cultural advice and advice on other issues. If
he comes up with a constructive suggestion, I may well follow it. If
you think Dan is incapable of coming up with a useful suggestion then
you think less of him than I do.
I certainly wouldn't ask Dan to do my job. I asked him to support his
statement by providing a suggested alternative (or several, if he
wishes). It is sometimes a useful heuristic do to this. And part of my
job is paying attention to useful advice.
> An independent security firm should be consulted, but it is the
> Foundation's responsibility to select that firm, not Dan Rosenthal's,
> or mine.
Which firm do you recommend, based on your own experience with such
firms? The Foundation is open to useful suggestions from its critics,
especially if they have experience in a relevant area.
--Mike
I think he is voicing objection to the policy.
----- Original Message ----
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:28:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] possible reconsideration, unifying criterion
Hoi,
Sorry this sentence does not parse for me !! What is it you are saying ??
Thanks,
GerardM
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:10 AM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> "Jesse Martin (Pathoschild)" <pathoschild(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hello Crazy
> Lover,
>
> > The subcommittee does not make exceptions to the policy, so discussion
> > should focus on the policy rather than on exempting particular
> > requests.
>
>
> Yeah, but the policy was pulled from the language committee's backside.
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Jon writes:
> Have you checked the state departments travel information area for any
> alerts, et cetera?
I can't speak for Dan, but we certainly did. I found <http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis_pa_tw_1168.html
> a good place to start.
--Mike
----- Original Message ----
From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:39:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] UNIQUE AND WORKABLE CRITERION
> * what kind of languages can have wikis?
>
> any that has a standarized writing system and enough writers and
> readers to form a viable community and audience. whether a particular
> language qualifies depends on discussion.
While the basic idea is about right, I think we need to be more
precise. If we adopt your criterion, we're going to get disputes over
the definitions of "writer", "reader" and "viable". Do writers and
readers need to be native speakers, fluent or just have a basic
understanding of the language, for example?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
native speakers, it is no longer mandatory. then they can be natural, artificial or classics.
writer: someone that is able to write the language acceptably?, well?, fluent? that another person understand that he/she has written.(understandable).
reader: someone that is able to understand the language that is reading.
viable: i'm not thinking in numbers. that allows it to function without problems.???
this is not a exact science. accordingly we need to accept some flexibility..
C.L.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Just as a quick note, the Wikimania 2008 scholarship deadline will be
April 21, at 23:59 (UTC). If you are applying for a scholarship, please
have it submitted by then.
Scholarship information may be found at
<http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships>.
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator
Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885
Fax: 415.882.0495
E-Mail: cary(a)wikimedia.org
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