Actually I think video documentation always should be opt-out. In past years speakers had to give their explicit approval by signing a form, at least after their talk, so the material could be used and published. This includes the agreement to the CC-BY license etc.
/Manuel
Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org schrieb:
To Steffen's point, perhaps video documentation can be made opt-out? A.
2014-04-04 15:02 GMT-07:00 Nicole Ebber nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de: On 4 April 2014 19:08, Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch wrote:
Someone from WMDE reading this who could have a look in the files (October 2011) to check the costs?
Yes! :) I can try and find out. Most probably not before Monday. Cheerio, Nicole
-- Nicole Ebber Leiterin Internationales Head of International Affairs Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Video documentation was opt-out, and said so on the submissions page: "If you object to these requirements (for instance, if you would prefer not to be filmed), please talk to a programme committee member before submitting a proposal."
I suppose this could have been make more explicit - the submissions page was largely inherited from last year, and I assumed that it would be clear that it's possible to opt-out. If this changes your mind about submitting, I don't mind if you submit late. (any objections to that?)
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On 5 April 2014 09:25, Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.chwrote:
Actually I think video documentation always should be opt-out. In past years speakers had to give their explicit approval by signing a form, at least after their talk, so the material could be used and published. This includes the agreement to the CC-BY license etc.
/Manuel
Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org schrieb:
To Steffen's point, perhaps video documentation can be made opt-out? A.
2014-04-04 15:02 GMT-07:00 Nicole Ebber nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de: On 4 April 2014 19:08, Manuel Schneider manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch wrote:
Someone from WMDE reading this who could have a look in the files (October 2011) to check the costs?
Yes! :) I can try and find out. Most probably not before Monday. Cheerio, Nicole
-- Nicole Ebber Leiterin Internationales Head of International Affairs Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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My opinion is that submissions where the presenters are not willing to be video documented should need to have some strong reasons for it. If not, other submissions should be prioritized before theirs since it will reach a wider audience. I.e. there can be some valid reasons for not recording, but a no argument like "I do not feel like it" should automatically only be selected if the pool of the submissions that allow recording are too small.
hi Jan, are you able to talk fluently in english?
If yes, then think about more than 70% of not native english speakers, which don´t. Even if they can follow a presentation or a panel. And you mean, they should be punished for that?
heinz
Am 05.04.2014 10:27, schrieb Jan Ainali:
My opinion is that submissions where the presenters are not willing to be video documented should need to have some strong reasons for it. If not, other submissions should be prioritized before theirs since it will reach a wider audience. I.e. there can be some valid reasons for not recording, but a no argument like "I do not feel like it" should automatically only be selected if the pool of the submissions that allow recording are too small.
-- Jan Ainali
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On April 5, 2014, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
Video documentation was opt-out, and said so on the submissions page: "If you object to these requirements (for instance, if you would prefer not to be filmed), please talk to a programme committee member before submitting a proposal."
I suppose this could have been make more explicit - the submissions page was largely inherited from last year, and I assumed that it would be clear that it's possible to opt-out. If this changes your mind about submitting, I don't mind if you submit late. (any objections to that?)
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On 5 April 2014 09:25, Manuel Schneider <manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch mailto:manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
Actually I think video documentation always should be opt-out. In past years speakers had to give their explicit approval by signing a form, at least after their talk, so the material could be used and published. This includes the agreement to the CC-BY license etc. /Manuel Asaf Bartov <abartov@wikimedia.org <mailto:abartov@wikimedia.org>> schrieb: To Steffen's point, perhaps video documentation can be made opt-out? A. 2014-04-04 15:02 GMT-07:00 Nicole Ebber <nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de <mailto:nicole.ebber@wikimedia.de>>: On 4 April 2014 19:08, Manuel Schneider <manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch <mailto:manuel.schneider@wikimedia.ch>> wrote: > Someone from WMDE reading this who could have a look in the files > (October 2011) to check the costs? > Yes! :) I can try and find out. Most probably not before Monday. Cheerio, Nicole -- Nicole Ebber Leiterin Internationales Head of International Affairs Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0 <tel:%2B49%2030%20219158%2026-0> http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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If yes, then think about more than 70% of not native english speakers, which don´t. Even if they can follow a presentation or a panel. And you mean, they should be punished for that?
I don't quite see the connection to what Jan said here. Nobody wants to punish non native speakers. Is there a correlation between being a non-native speaker and not wanting to be filmed? I have to agree with jan that submissions that decline being video taped _should_ indeed be punished (to pick up on that hyperbole). The reason is simple. These contributors are providing less value by not being taped. They are effectively "punishing" people that are unable to attend the conference physically. We wouldn't be getting as much out of their talks as we possibly could. Daniel
Wikimania 2013, 125 Videos with an average access rate of 12.
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value? The polling numbers for 2012 were slightly higher, but even they are beyond any comprehensible value.
What then are we talking about?
I see no rea value, which can be facing the not inconsiderable costs. We should strive to turn to more practice. This tells us that videos are totally overvalued.
You, Dschwen, should not compare your own situation as a U.S. resident with thousands of other Wikipedians, which probably would be able to give a talk in their own language, but not in a foreign language. The same applies to all other persons who are not able to follow a complex lecture in English. Not even on video. And you will not find anyone who will make subtitles in videos, which are just accessed 100 times in the best case.
To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve more the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves.
H Am 14.04.2014 17:53, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
If yes, then think about more than 70% of not native english speakers, which don´t. Even if they can follow a presentation or a panel. And you mean, they should be punished for that?
I don't quite see the connection to what Jan said here. Nobody wants to punish non native speakers. Is there a correlation between being a non-native speaker and not wanting to be filmed? I have to agree with jan that submissions that decline being video taped _should_ indeed be punished (to pick up on that hyperbole). The reason is simple. These contributors are providing less value by not being taped. They are effectively "punishing" people that are unable to attend the conference physically. We wouldn't be getting as much out of their talks as we possibly could. Daniel
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I believe this Wikimania will be different. Our videos will be higher quality, and livestreamed and uploaded same day by a dedicated team. The videos will be broadcast by our media partners. We have a larger number of featured speakers who have their own audiences, that will attract people to the rest of the video content. The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice. Finally, the event itself is simply much larger.
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On 15 April 2014 09:57, Hegger heinz.egger@gmx.at wrote:
Wikimania 2013, 125 Videos with an average access rate of 12.
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of whatvalue are you talking about? From a theoretical value? The polling numbers for 2012 were slightly higher, but even they are beyond any comprehensible value.
What then are we talking about?
I see no rea value, which can be facing the not inconsiderable costs. We should strive to turn to more practice. This tells us that videos are totally
overvalued.
You, Dschwen, should not compare your own situation as a U.S. resident with thousands of other Wikipedians, which probably would be able to give a talk in their own language, but not in a foreign language. The same applies to all other persons who are not able to follow a complex lecture in English. Not even on video. And you will not find anyone who will make subtitles in videos, which are just accessed 100 times in the best case.
To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve more the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves.
H Am 14.04.2014 17:53, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
If yes, then think about more than 70% of not native english speakers, which don´t. Even if they can follow a presentation or a panel. And you mean, they should be punished for that?
I don't quite see the connection to what Jan said here. Nobody wants to punish non native speakers. Is there a correlation between being a non-native speaker and not wanting to be filmed? I have to agree with jan that submissions that decline being video taped _should_ indeed be punished (to pick up on that hyperbole). The reason is simple. These contributors are providing less value by not being taped. They are effectively "punishing" people that are unable to attend the conference physically. We wouldn't be getting as much out of their talks as we possibly could. Daniel
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On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
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I have a meeting with the venue team to discuss this today :-)
On 15 April 2014 10:21, Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
*Philippe Beaudette * \ Director, Community Advocacy \ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | philippe@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.orgwrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
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It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org wrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette < philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
*Philippe Beaudette * \ Director, Community Advocacy \ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | philippe@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org wrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette < philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
*Philippe Beaudette * \ Director, Community Advocacy \ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | philippe@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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I feel Wikimania is big enough that we could put a generic “Wikimania is happening, stream it over here” thing up as a notice without too many complaints. My concerns would lie in that we’re trying, to the best of my knowledge, to prevent this becoming an enwiki-focused affair, which in honesty has threatened to be the case over the past few years.
best, Joe
On 15 April 2014 at 02:03:06 pm, Andrew Gray (andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk) wrote:
Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote: It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
Edward Saperia Chief Coordinator Wikimania London email • facebook • twitter • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org wrote: To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette philippe@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote: The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
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Well, almost everything we do leads to *someone* being very vocally upset :)
I haven't drafted what it would say yet, but I guess something along the lines of: "Wikipedia is having its annual conference, Wikimania, where the community convene to discuss the future of the project - click here to watch a livestream."
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On 15 April 2014 13:02, Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote:
Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org wrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette < philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia <ed@wikimanialondon.org
wrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
*Philippe Beaudette * \ Director, Community Advocacy \ Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 | philippe@wikimedia.org | : @Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki
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Hm, if you're going to advertize it on the centralnotice, maybe I will reconsider my availability for a live stream (perhaps depending on specifics).
Seriously, while we have great speakers, I'm not sure all of us are confident enough for that kind of an outreach, nor would I feel that the average Wikimania speaker gives enough of a good impression to the average website visitor.
Lodewijk
2014-04-15 14:10 GMT+02:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:
Well, almost everything we do leads to *someone* being very vocally upset :)
I haven't drafted what it would say yet, but I guess something along the lines of: "Wikipedia is having its annual conference, Wikimania, where the community convene to discuss the future of the project - click here to watch a livestream."
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 13:02, Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote:
Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.orgwrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette < philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia < ed@wikimanialondon.org> wrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
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Seriously, while we have great speakers, I'm not sure all of us are confident enough for that kind of an outreach, nor would I feel that the average Wikimania speaker gives enough of a good impression to the average website visitor.
Ok, Video makes your embarrassing talk somewhat permanent. I grant you that. Although we could always allow for talks to be pulled if the speakers are unhappy. But..
* You are less embarrassed to give a crappy talk infront of a live audience than infront of an anonymous youtube viewer? * You think it is ok to waste the time of people who travelled thousands of miles to this conference with a crappy talk (the crappyness of which you apparently know in advance), but it would be too much of a burden on someone who spent the effort of a mere mouseclick to view your talk to click once more to close the video?! ;-)
I do see the point about the "average website visitor". We should probably discuss the mode of announcement a bit more. At least we may want to point out that some of the streamed sessions are or arather technical nature (technical not necessary meaning "development" but also copyright geekery and acronym fests like "GLAM" and such).
Hmmm....
- You think it is ok to waste the time of people who travelled thousands
of miles to this conference with a crappy talk (the crappyness of which you apparently know in advance), but it would be too much of a burden on someone who spent the effort of a mere mouseclick to view your talk to click once more to close the video?! ;-)
+1 to this! I'll have spent two years putting this event together, you lot better come up with worthwhile things to say!
Anyway, the livestreams will be for the main auditorium, the so called "public" track. I'll be inviting submissions that seem good and of wider interest to this track; they can refuse. The other talks will probably just be recorded and uploaded as usual - which will be opt out, as usual.
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2014-04-15 22:37 GMT+02:00 Edward Saperia ed@originalcontentlondon.com:
Anyway, the livestreams will be for the main auditorium, the so called "public" track. I'll be inviting submissions that seem good and of wider interest to this track; they can refuse. The other talks will probably just be recorded and uploaded as usual - which will be opt out, as usual.
Thanks, this leaves the choice with the presentor.
And just to be clear - of course I don't plan to give a shitty presentation :) Actually, I rather hope to lead some interesting discussions - rather than present anything this time around.
Lodewijk
Am 15.04.2014 22:26, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
Seriously, while we have great speakers, I'm not sure all of us are confident enough for that kind of an outreach, nor would I feel that the average Wikimania speaker gives enough of a good impression to the average website visitor.Ok, Video makes your embarrassing talk somewhat permanent. I grant you that. Although we could always allow for talks to be pulled if the speakers are unhappy. But..
Who is we, Daniel Schwen? If you feel good with a crappy speach, it´s fine for you. Do you have any idea how other people may feel sometimes or is everything in your live just about you?
h
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On April 15, 2014, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hm, if you're going to advertize it on the centralnotice, maybe I will reconsider my availability for a live stream (perhaps depending on specifics).
I am confused. Are you saying you are okay with being recorded only if you have a guesstimate of viewers that are very low?
Seriously, while we have great speakers, I'm not sure all of us are confident enough for that kind of an outreach, nor would I feel that the average Wikimania speaker gives enough of a good impression to the average website visitor.
I sort of agree, but rather from an interest aspect. The average website visitor are certainly not interested in the inner workings of our community. If central notice is used, it should be for specific sessions targeted on outreach to people unaware of how the Wikimedia universe works.
/Jan
Lodewijk
2014-04-15 14:10 GMT+02:00 Edward Saperia <ed@wikimanialondon.org>:
Well, almost everything we do leads to someone being very vocally upset :)
I haven't drafted what it would say yet, but I guess something along the lines of:"Wikipedia is having its annual conference, Wikimania, where the community convene to discuss the future of the project - click here to watch a livestream."
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On 15 April 2014 13:02, Andrew Gray <andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia <ed@wikimanialondon.org> wrote:
It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
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On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander <jalexander@wikimedia.org> wrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
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On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia <ed@wikimanialondon.org> wrote:
> The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first. pb
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If the talk is being exposed actively to a much larger audience, then that would definitely become a consideration yes. Being online for those looking for it, feels very different than being pushed on top of one of the top websites to me. But maybe that is a personal thing.
Lodewijk
2014-04-15 22:33 GMT+02:00 Jan Ainali jan@ainali.com:
On April 15, 2014, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hm, if you're going to advertize it on the centralnotice, maybe I will reconsider my availability for a live stream (perhaps depending on specifics).
I am confused. Are you saying you are okay with being recorded only if you have a guesstimate of viewers that are very low?
Seriously, while we have great speakers, I'm not sure all of us are confident enough for that kind of an outreach, nor would I feel that the average Wikimania speaker gives enough of a good impression to the average website visitor.
I sort of agree, but rather from an interest aspect. The average website visitor are certainly not interested in the inner workings of our community. If central notice is used, it should be for specific sessions targeted on outreach to people unaware of how the Wikimedia universe works.
/Jan
Lodewijk
2014-04-15 14:10 GMT+02:00 Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org:
Well, almost everything we do leads to *someone* being very vocally upset :)
I haven't drafted what it would say yet, but I guess something along the lines of: "Wikipedia is having its annual conference, Wikimania, where the community convene to discuss the future of the project - click here to watch a livestream."
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 13:02, Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk wrote:
Among other issues, pretty much anything in a CentralNotice leads to someone being very vocally upset with what they see as spam. It's hard to predict quite how large or vocal that number will be in this case, as we haven't done it before :-)
(Are you thinking of some kind of specific message - "watch XYZ speaking about the future of Wikipedia" - or a generic "Wikimania is now on; watch here"?)
A.
On 15 April 2014 10:49, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.org wrote:
It isn't TED, but from the get go I've had outreach as a primary goal with this event, and I've been planning and programming with that in mind. This doesn't have to set a precedent for future Wikimanias. Technical concerns aside, what negative outcomes are you imagining?
*Edward Saperia* Chief Coordinator Wikimania London http://www.wikimanialondon.org email ed@wikimanialondon.org • facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
On 15 April 2014 10:28, James Alexander jalexander@wikimedia.org wrote:
To be honest I'm not completely sure I'm comfortable with that level of advertising (in fact it makes me very very uncomfortable) even if it works technically. This isn't TED....and I would hate to see it turn into that especially given the wide variety in organizers each year.
James
James Alexander Legal and Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:21 AM, Philippe Beaudette < philippe@wikimedia.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Edward Saperia ed@wikimanialondon.orgwrote:
The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice
My understanding is that this is far from a decided thing. There are still some massive concerns about your servers rolling over and dying with the traffic we send from this - particularly for streaming video which is already a bandwidth hog. I'd want to see some testing first.
pb
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Sounds good!
But we still have the problem with the question, that there are different ideas about whether lecturers have to be asked first if they want to appear as live stream and then to YouTube with their presentation. And certainly the somewhat strange idea that one should be discriminated against someone because of that, if he don´ want to be videotaped.
h
Am 15.04.2014 11:17, schrieb Edward Saperia:
I believe this Wikimania will be different. Our videos will be higher quality, and livestreamed and uploaded same day by a dedicated team. The videos will be broadcast by our media partners. We have a larger number of featured speakers who have their own audiences, that will attract people to the rest of the video content. The livestreams will be promoted via a centralnotice. Finally, the event itself is simply much larger.
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On 15 April 2014 09:57, Hegger <heinz.egger@gmx.at mailto:heinz.egger@gmx.at> wrote:
Wikimania 2013, 125 Videos with an average access rate of 12. Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value? The polling numbers for 2012 were slightly higher, but even they are beyond any comprehensible value. What then are we talking about? I see no rea value, which can be facing the not inconsiderable costs. We should strive to turn to more practice. This tells us that videos are totally overvalued. You, Dschwen, should not compare your own situation as a U.S. resident with thousands of other Wikipedians, which probably would be able to give a talk in their own language, but not in a foreign language. The same applies to all other persons who are not able to follow a complex lecture in English. Not even on video. And you will not find anyone who will make subtitles in videos, which are just accessed 100 times in the best case. To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve more the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves. H Am 14.04.2014 17:53, schrieb Daniel Schwen:If yes, then think about more than 70% of not native english speakers, which don´t. Even if they can follow a presentation or a panel. And you mean, they should be punished for that?I don't quite see the connection to what Jan said here. Nobody wants to punish non native speakers. Is there a correlation between being a non-native speaker and not wanting to be filmed? I have to agree with jan that submissions that decline being video taped _should_ indeed be punished (to pick up on that hyperbole). The reason is simple. These contributors are providing less value by not being taped. They are effectively "punishing" people that are unable to attend the conference physically. We wouldn't be getting as much out of their talks as we possibly could. Daniel _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On 15/04/14 10:17, Edward Saperia wrote:
I believe this Wikimania will be different. Our videos will be higher quality, and livestreamed and uploaded same day by a dedicated team. The videos will be broadcast by our media partners.
Shame that they will not be multicast.....
Gordo
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value?
The way video was handled at previous Wikimanias has not been the optimum yet (no live streaming, very late upload). But even 12 accesses represent a substantial increase in audience compared to the physical attendence numbers (keep in mind that there are many parallel sessions).
You, Dschwen, should not compare your own situation as a U.S. resident with thousands of other Wikipedians, which probably would be able to give a talk
I am not a native speaker though. Even though my address is in the US (and I'm curious as to where you found out about that) I am a german citizen.
in their own language, but not in a foreign language. The same applies to all other persons who are not able to follow a complex lecture in English.
I still don't understand why you conflate the issue of non-native speakers with the video opt-out question. I do not see any problem having a speaker with limited english skills taped (hell, my pronounciation and grammar is probably questionable as well). If anything it would be an advantage to be able and review a talk where you didn't understand the speaker at teh first time. And taping a talk that is given in the speakers native language would have the advantage of being able to subtitle later.
To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve more the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves.
Hogwash.
On 15 April 2014 13:47, Daniel Schwen lists@schwen.de wrote:
To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve
more
the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves.
Hogwash.
While I wouldn't go so far as to say "hogwash" to that, I will say that knowing the intended extent of videotaping and livestreaming intended for Wikimania 2014 was a key factor in my deciding not to submit a presentation this year. It will also likely affect the manner in which I participate in sessions.
Risker
On 15 April 2014 18:59, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 15 April 2014 13:47, Daniel Schwen lists@schwen.de wrote:
To be a little provocative to say: Forget about the videos, these serve
more
the coverage and vanity of the speakers themselves.
Hogwash.
While I wouldn't go so far as to say "hogwash" to that, I will say that knowing the intended extent of videotaping and livestreaming intended for Wikimania 2014 was a key factor in my deciding not to submit a presentation this year. It will also likely affect the manner in which I participate in sessions.
At the risk of repeating myself - recording is opt out.
Am 15.04.2014 19:47, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value?
The way video was handled at previous Wikimanias has not been the optimum yet (no live streaming, very late upload). But even 12 accesses represent a substantial increase in audience compared to the physical attendence numbers (keep in mind that there are many parallel sessions).
2 accesses are from my own.
It was Jimbos Keyspeech. And this is for you a substantial increase?
See you in London, Daniel!
h. /Hubertl
On 15 Apr 2014, at 20:33, Hegger heinz.egger@gmx.at wrote:
Am 15.04.2014 19:47, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value?
The way video was handled at previous Wikimanias has not been the optimum yet (no live streaming, very late upload). But even 12 accesses represent a substantial increase in audience compared to the physical attendence numbers (keep in mind that there are many parallel sessions).
2 accesses are from my own.
It was Jimbos Keyspeech. And this is for you a substantial increase?
See you in London, Daniel!
h. /Hubertl
Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?
Thanks, Mike
On 14-04-15 12:39 PM, Michael Peel wrote:
On 15 Apr 2014, at 20:33, Hegger heinz.egger@gmx.at wrote:
Am 15.04.2014 19:47, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value?
The way video was handled at previous Wikimanias has not been the optimum yet (no live streaming, very late upload). But even 12 accesses represent a substantial increase in audience compared to the physical attendence numbers (keep in mind that there are many parallel sessions).
2 accesses are from my own.
It was Jimbos Keyspeech. And this is for you a substantial increase?
See you in London, Daniel!
h. /Hubertl
Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?
Thanks, Mike
view counts are presumably taken from https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK/videos (126 videos) which doesn't take into account any views of the 21 videos that have been uploaded to Commons, so far. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2013_presentation_vide...
Am 15.04.2014 21:39, schrieb Michael Peel:
On 15 Apr 2014, at 20:33, Hegger heinz.egger@gmx.at wrote:
Am 15.04.2014 19:47, schrieb Daniel Schwen:
Even the video of Jimbo was with 11 calls below the average. Of what value are you talking about? From a theoretical value?
The way video was handled at previous Wikimanias has not been the optimum yet (no live streaming, very late upload). But even 12 accesses represent a substantial increase in audience compared to the physical attendence numbers (keep in mind that there are many parallel sessions).
2 accesses are from my own.
It was Jimbos Keyspeech. And this is for you a substantial increase?
See you in London, Daniel!
h. /Hubertl
Out of curiosity, where are these numbers coming from?
Thanks, Mike
https://www.youtube.com/user/WikimediaHK
h
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