Dear all,
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:
- Wiki Loves Monuments
- Wiki Loves Earth
- Wiki Loves Public Art
There was also a fourth proposal, "WikiRIC - Requested Image Competition" that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. - I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)
Suggestions for the next steps:
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:
- sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up
- sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn't happened yet)
- follows up on the evaluation of this year's contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:
- when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)
- how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)
Kind regards,
Beat
_____________________________________________________ Beat Estermann Research Associate Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31
Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat beat.estermann@bfh.chwrote:
Dear all,****
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal:****
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:****
**- **Wiki Loves Monuments****
**- **Wiki Loves Earth****
**- **Wiki Loves Public Art****
There was also a fourth proposal, “WikiRIC – Requested Image Competition” that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. – I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)****
*Suggestions for the next steps:*
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:****
**- **sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up****
**- **sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn’t happened yet)****
**- **follows up on the evaluation of this year’s contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)****
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:****
**- **when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)****
**- **how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)****
Kind regards,****
Beat****
_____________________________________________________ ****
Beat Estermann Research Associate****
Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 ****
beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch ****
Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31 ****
As I also indicated elsewhere, I have my doubts about some of these conclusions. Yes, there's enthusiasm for many different initiatives (the session at Wikimania had a focus on improving the concept and surfacing innovation), but we should reconsider the picture as a whole. I'm not convinced that we should continue with Wiki Loves Monuments should be repeated in 2014, but that it would perhaps be good to pause it for one or two years, at the benefit of Wiki Loves Earth.
I think that we should have a more in-depth discussion after Wiki Loves Monuments has finished (end of October), about what the path for the next year should be. I personally think that we can only run one major competition on a large scale internationally at a time - and perhaps a few tryouts parallel to it in individual countries. Also, I think it would be wise to reconsider exchanging Wiki Loves Public Art for the internationally more realistic Wiki Loves Art (using museums and their contents rather than things on the streets).
In any case, thanks for publishing the notes, lets be careful with extrapolation enthusiasm into big picture results.
Lodewijk
2013/9/25 Ganesh Paudel gpaudel@gmail.com
Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat beat.estermann@bfh.chwrote:
Dear all,****
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal:****
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:****
**- **Wiki Loves Monuments****
**- **Wiki Loves Earth****
**- **Wiki Loves Public Art****
There was also a fourth proposal, “WikiRIC – Requested Image Competition” that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. – I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)****
*Suggestions for the next steps:*
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:****
**- **sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up****
**- **sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn’t happened yet)****
**- **follows up on the evaluation of this year’s contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)****
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:****
**- **when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)****
**- **how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)****
Kind regards,****
Beat****
_____________________________________________________ ****
Beat Estermann Research Associate****
Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 ****
beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch ****
Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31 ****
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I had an interesting discussion with a professional photographer of animals.
I invited him to participate to WLM and he refused because the modality to take a photo of an animal is different from the monument one.
The monument doesn't move... so I agree that the objective has to be changed instead of trying to enlarge the list of monuments.
Regards
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
As I also indicated elsewhere, I have my doubts about some of these conclusions. Yes, there's enthusiasm for many different initiatives (the session at Wikimania had a focus on improving the concept and surfacing innovation), but we should reconsider the picture as a whole. I'm not convinced that we should continue with Wiki Loves Monuments should be repeated in 2014, but that it would perhaps be good to pause it for one or two years, at the benefit of Wiki Loves Earth.
I think that we should have a more in-depth discussion after Wiki Loves Monuments has finished (end of October), about what the path for the next year should be. I personally think that we can only run one major competition on a large scale internationally at a time - and perhaps a few tryouts parallel to it in individual countries. Also, I think it would be wise to reconsider exchanging Wiki Loves Public Art for the internationally more realistic Wiki Loves Art (using museums and their contents rather than things on the streets).
In any case, thanks for publishing the notes, lets be careful with extrapolation enthusiasm into big picture results.
Lodewijk
2013/9/25 Ganesh Paudel gpaudel@gmail.com
Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat beat.estermann@bfh.chwrote:
Dear all,****
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal:****
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:****
**- **Wiki Loves Monuments****
**- **Wiki Loves Earth****
**- **Wiki Loves Public Art****
There was also a fourth proposal, “WikiRIC – Requested Image Competition” that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. – I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)****
*Suggestions for the next steps:*
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:****
**- **sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up****
**- **sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn’t happened yet)****
**- **follows up on the evaluation of this year’s contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)****
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:****
**- **when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)
**- **how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)***
Kind regards,****
Beat****
_____________________________________________________ ****
Beat Estermann Research Associate****
Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 ****
beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch ****
Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31 ****
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Dear Lodewijk, dear all,
When reading your lines, two options spring to my mind:
1) The movement decides as a whole which big contest will be run in which year. The objective would be to make it as big as possible, meaning that we would aim for 50+ countries. Alternating between themes as you suggest would certainly make sense.
2) There are several thematic contests taking place every year. The decision to run a particular contest in a given year would be country-based. So, individual countries would decide whether they pause in a given year or take up another theme. Probably, these contests would be a bit smaller, maybe uniting only 10-20 countries at a time.
When choosing between the two options, there are several questions I would ask:
- What option makes life easier for local organizers / chapters? (planning security, flexibility, managing partner relationships, getting the right lists ready at the right moment, etc.)
- Is it easier to handle several smaller contests or one big contest at the international level (economies of scale; coordination effort both at the technical and the organizational level)?
- How important is it to be able to say that we are running the largest photo contest worldwide?
I don't have the answers; and there are probably more relevant questions to be asked...
Best, Beat
From: effeietsanders@gmail.com [mailto:effeietsanders@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lodewijk Sent: Donnerstag, 26. September 2013 15:37 To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition Cc: Estermann Beat Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Thinking about the future
As I also indicated elsewhere, I have my doubts about some of these conclusions. Yes, there's enthusiasm for many different initiatives (the session at Wikimania had a focus on improving the concept and surfacing innovation), but we should reconsider the picture as a whole. I'm not convinced that we should continue with Wiki Loves Monuments should be repeated in 2014, but that it would perhaps be good to pause it for one or two years, at the benefit of Wiki Loves Earth.
I think that we should have a more in-depth discussion after Wiki Loves Monuments has finished (end of October), about what the path for the next year should be. I personally think that we can only run one major competition on a large scale internationally at a time - and perhaps a few tryouts parallel to it in individual countries. Also, I think it would be wise to reconsider exchanging Wiki Loves Public Art for the internationally more realistic Wiki Loves Art (using museums and their contents rather than things on the streets).
In any case, thanks for publishing the notes, lets be careful with extrapolation enthusiasm into big picture results.
Lodewijk
2013/9/25 Ganesh Paudel <gpaudel@gmail.commailto:gpaudel@gmail.com> Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat <beat.estermann@bfh.chmailto:beat.estermann@bfh.ch> wrote: Dear all,
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:
- Wiki Loves Monuments
- Wiki Loves Earth
- Wiki Loves Public Art
There was also a fourth proposal, "WikiRIC - Requested Image Competition" that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. - I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)
Suggestions for the next steps:
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:
- sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up
- sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn't happened yet)
- follows up on the evaluation of this year's contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:
- when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)
- how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)
Kind regards,
Beat
_____________________________________________________ Beat Estermann Research Associate Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 beat.estermann@bfh.chmailto:beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.chhttp://www.e-government.bfh.ch Phone +41 31 848 34 30tel:%2B41%2031%20848%2034%2030 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38tel:%2B41%2031%20848%2034%2038 Fax +41 31 848 34 31tel:%2B41%2031%20848%2034%2031
_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.orgmailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
From the experiences made co organizing the first wlm in Switzerland and
helping out with the first wlm in Ghana i can fully support what lodewijk is writing. Having one big international competition helps a lot locally. And having the same initiative every year bears the risk of tiring out the participating volunteers, whatever role they play. This does not prevent that from time to time it is appropriate to focus on something different or new in a country, as beat mentioned.
rupert Am 26.09.2013 15:37 schrieb "Lodewijk" lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
As I also indicated elsewhere, I have my doubts about some of these conclusions. Yes, there's enthusiasm for many different initiatives (the session at Wikimania had a focus on improving the concept and surfacing innovation), but we should reconsider the picture as a whole. I'm not convinced that we should continue with Wiki Loves Monuments should be repeated in 2014, but that it would perhaps be good to pause it for one or two years, at the benefit of Wiki Loves Earth.
I think that we should have a more in-depth discussion after Wiki Loves Monuments has finished (end of October), about what the path for the next year should be. I personally think that we can only run one major competition on a large scale internationally at a time - and perhaps a few tryouts parallel to it in individual countries. Also, I think it would be wise to reconsider exchanging Wiki Loves Public Art for the internationally more realistic Wiki Loves Art (using museums and their contents rather than things on the streets).
In any case, thanks for publishing the notes, lets be careful with extrapolation enthusiasm into big picture results.
Lodewijk
2013/9/25 Ganesh Paudel gpaudel@gmail.com
Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat beat.estermann@bfh.chwrote:
Dear all,****
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal:****
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:****
**- **Wiki Loves Monuments****
**- **Wiki Loves Earth****
**- **Wiki Loves Public Art****
There was also a fourth proposal, “WikiRIC – Requested Image Competition” that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. – I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)****
*Suggestions for the next steps:*
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:****
**- **sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign up****
**- **sets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn’t happened yet)****
**- **follows up on the evaluation of this year’s contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)****
Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:****
**- **when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)
**- **how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)***
Kind regards,****
Beat****
_____________________________________________________ ****
Beat Estermann Research Associate****
Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22 ****
beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch ****
Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31 ****
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Let's explain why it may be important not to have a clear picture but at least to define the strategy for 2014... some countries are defining the budget for 2014, mainly for FDC, and they have to define the project plan for next year.
If WLM is not done, I suppose that there would be a general displeasure connected with the request of budget or project plan for 2014.
The same also about reconfirmation of project managers and the working group.
As member of GAC I would say that WLM is becoming an important and crucial event for a lot of chapters and they plan it the year before. Around this event there is a big planning and a decision or a "may be" can have a lot of consequences.
I think that it's time to consider this point and to forget to manage an event like WLM with the same parameters of an event driven by the community and by the volunteers. Behind it there now organizations, staffs and budgets and the requests of WMF to manage them are not so flexible as the flexibility used to take the decision within WLM.
There is no need to have a clear picture but it may be the best to define a general trend. If this decision will come later in the 2014, some months before the start of the event, it may have a big impact in the planning of chapters and may generate a lot of work.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Please note that I said we should have this discussion by the end of October, not a few months before the event.
The quality of the discussion and the success of the ongoing competition is more important to me than how convenient it is for the budget planning of individual chapters. They can work around this by stating for example that they want to participate in 'one international photo competition *such as* Wiki Loves Monuments'. There seems consensus that there will be at least one international photo competition, so that should be safe.
The major bottle neck for organizing these competitions is not staff, is not budget (although the lack of it can impact the quality we can deliver). The major bottle neck is volunteers that are willing to do the work - basically what Charles described quite vividly. Budget and staff should support those efforts.
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Let's explain why it may be important not to have a clear picture but at least to define the strategy for 2014... some countries are defining the budget for 2014, mainly for FDC, and they have to define the project plan for next year.
If WLM is not done, I suppose that there would be a general displeasure connected with the request of budget or project plan for 2014.
The same also about reconfirmation of project managers and the working group.
As member of GAC I would say that WLM is becoming an important and crucial event for a lot of chapters and they plan it the year before. Around this event there is a big planning and a decision or a "may be" can have a lot of consequences.
I think that it's time to consider this point and to forget to manage an event like WLM with the same parameters of an event driven by the community and by the volunteers. Behind it there now organizations, staffs and budgets and the requests of WMF to manage them are not so flexible as the flexibility used to take the decision within WLM.
There is no need to have a clear picture but it may be the best to define a general trend. If this decision will come later in the 2014, some months before the start of the event, it may have a big impact in the planning of chapters and may generate a lot of work.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
My personal thoughts, and obviously dependent on the availability of volunteers over here etc.
I believe the UK will want to participate in an 'international photo competition' around this time next year. However, we may also want to run Wiki Loves Monuments locally even if there isn't an international WLM next year. That would only be feasible of course if we have an idea of the international plan fairly soon. A discussion by the end of October would be great.
Katie
On 27 September 2013 10:05, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Please note that I said we should have this discussion by the end of October, not a few months before the event.
The quality of the discussion and the success of the ongoing competition is more important to me than how convenient it is for the budget planning of individual chapters. They can work around this by stating for example that they want to participate in 'one international photo competition *such as* Wiki Loves Monuments'. There seems consensus that there will be at least one international photo competition, so that should be safe.
The major bottle neck for organizing these competitions is not staff, is not budget (although the lack of it can impact the quality we can deliver). The major bottle neck is volunteers that are willing to do the work - basically what Charles described quite vividly. Budget and staff should support those efforts.
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Let's explain why it may be important not to have a clear picture but at least to define the strategy for 2014... some countries are defining the budget for 2014, mainly for FDC, and they have to define the project plan for next year.
If WLM is not done, I suppose that there would be a general displeasure connected with the request of budget or project plan for 2014.
The same also about reconfirmation of project managers and the working group.
As member of GAC I would say that WLM is becoming an important and crucial event for a lot of chapters and they plan it the year before. Around this event there is a big planning and a decision or a "may be" can have a lot of consequences.
I think that it's time to consider this point and to forget to manage an event like WLM with the same parameters of an event driven by the community and by the volunteers. Behind it there now organizations, staffs and budgets and the requests of WMF to manage them are not so flexible as the flexibility used to take the decision within WLM.
There is no need to have a clear picture but it may be the best to define a general trend. If this decision will come later in the 2014, some months before the start of the event, it may have a big impact in the planning of chapters and may generate a lot of work.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I agree, but you are not speaking about doing or not doing a photo contest next year, but to change the objectives.
I may understand if you would switch the contest by writing poems and not taking photos, in this case the volunteers involvement is important, but the discussion is mainly to define if next year there will be one, two, or three events or a change of objectives, but there will be anyway a photo contest.
Anyway I agree that October is a good compromise, but a clearer picture should be defined before the end of 2013.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Please note that I said we should have this discussion by the end of October, not a few months before the event.
The quality of the discussion and the success of the ongoing competition is more important to me than how convenient it is for the budget planning of individual chapters. They can work around this by stating for example that they want to participate in 'one international photo competition *such as* Wiki Loves Monuments'. There seems consensus that there will be at least one international photo competition, so that should be safe.
The major bottle neck for organizing these competitions is not staff, is not budget (although the lack of it can impact the quality we can deliver). The major bottle neck is volunteers that are willing to do the work - basically what Charles described quite vividly. Budget and staff should support those efforts.
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Let's explain why it may be important not to have a clear picture but at least to define the strategy for 2014... some countries are defining the budget for 2014, mainly for FDC, and they have to define the project plan for next year.
If WLM is not done, I suppose that there would be a general displeasure connected with the request of budget or project plan for 2014.
The same also about reconfirmation of project managers and the working group.
As member of GAC I would say that WLM is becoming an important and crucial event for a lot of chapters and they plan it the year before. Around this event there is a big planning and a decision or a "may be" can have a lot of consequences.
I think that it's time to consider this point and to forget to manage an event like WLM with the same parameters of an event driven by the community and by the volunteers. Behind it there now organizations, staffs and budgets and the requests of WMF to manage them are not so flexible as the flexibility used to take the decision within WLM.
There is no need to have a clear picture but it may be the best to define a general trend. If this decision will come later in the 2014, some months before the start of the event, it may have a big impact in the planning of chapters and may generate a lot of work.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I disagree: the volunteers are extremely important in every aspect of deciding if, which and how there will be a contest. Without a drive of the volunteers for the topic and method of the competition, nothing will happen successfully. Lots of stuff went wrong this year - and most of it was fixed by volunteers who cared for the cause. If we choose a topic that doesn't suit them, I guarantee that the contest (or any project) will fall flat on its face. And many volunteers care not because of the photos, but because of the heritage part. So if we want to change to natural heritage, we should make sure there are enough (different? the same?) volunteers that support it. But yeah, if there's a big support for writing poems, maybe we should consider that too :)
Anyway, October it is! :) Feel free of course to poke if nothing in this discussion happened by October 25 - I hope to initiate a discussion before that.
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
I agree, but you are not speaking about doing or not doing a photo contest next year, but to change the objectives.
I may understand if you would switch the contest by writing poems and not taking photos, in this case the volunteers involvement is important, but the discussion is mainly to define if next year there will be one, two, or three events or a change of objectives, but there will be anyway a photo contest.
Anyway I agree that October is a good compromise, but a clearer picture should be defined before the end of 2013.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Please note that I said we should have this discussion by the end of October, not a few months before the event.
The quality of the discussion and the success of the ongoing competition is more important to me than how convenient it is for the budget planning of individual chapters. They can work around this by stating for example that they want to participate in 'one international photo competition *such as* Wiki Loves Monuments'. There seems consensus that there will be at least one international photo competition, so that should be safe.
The major bottle neck for organizing these competitions is not staff, is not budget (although the lack of it can impact the quality we can deliver). The major bottle neck is volunteers that are willing to do the work - basically what Charles described quite vividly. Budget and staff should support those efforts.
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Let's explain why it may be important not to have a clear picture but at least to define the strategy for 2014... some countries are defining the budget for 2014, mainly for FDC, and they have to define the project plan for next year.
If WLM is not done, I suppose that there would be a general displeasure connected with the request of budget or project plan for 2014.
The same also about reconfirmation of project managers and the working group.
As member of GAC I would say that WLM is becoming an important and crucial event for a lot of chapters and they plan it the year before. Around this event there is a big planning and a decision or a "may be" can have a lot of consequences.
I think that it's time to consider this point and to forget to manage an event like WLM with the same parameters of an event driven by the community and by the volunteers. Behind it there now organizations, staffs and budgets and the requests of WMF to manage them are not so flexible as the flexibility used to take the decision within WLM.
There is no need to have a clear picture but it may be the best to define a general trend. If this decision will come later in the 2014, some months before the start of the event, it may have a big impact in the planning of chapters and may generate a lot of work.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Again, I suggest we have this discussion in October :) We still have a lot of work to be done, and that makes it harder to be honest while keeping up motivation too.
I'm not sure if a 'formal' evaluation process would be helpful here - most of the measures won't be available. There will be an evaluation of WLM internationally, but considering the timepath I don't want to wait for that. This decision does not primarily depend on past decisions, how well it went in the past, or even on results, but on the main bottleneck of these events: what do the volunteers want. The only thing I can imagine to wait for is the organizers survey that we'll be running like last year (this is different from the participant survey organized mostly by Beat).
Lodewijk
2013/9/27 Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I'm with Ilario on this. This year we had about fifty countries participate, but there are many more which could take part in a "natural" features event. Take Georgia for example, like most ex-soviet states it has a non-commercial freedom of panorama, and very few old monuments in the cities where people live. The soviets destroyed pre soviet monuments and most Soviet era monuments have been melted for scrap. Compared to the UK there sometimes isn't so much that is unambiguously out of copyright and nothing modern can be used.
We also have new technology out there, lots of people could take videos of waterfalls, waves on a beach or even timelapse photos of a mountain snowcap through a winter. We could run a global event that focussed on that.
WLM could skip a year or it could focus on local events, we in the UK are considering looking at our gaps, and targeting our wiki takes events at towns where we have poor or low quality coverage of their listed buildings. Yes WLM has brought us some good images of buildings we previously only had poor quality images for. It has also brought us images of buildings that we didn't have any images for. But an awful lot of it has been additional shots of buildings that already have large categories - and that isn't going to give much improvement to Wikipedia.
On 27 September 2013 09:21, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Honestly I would suggest a competition which will not face copyright problems.
A Wiki Loves Earth will give less problems than a Wiki Loves Arts. I don't remember that animals or plants can ask for fee or for copyrights or for privacy.
Some countries like Italy, for instance, will have to do a lot of preliminary work to know if they can participate in a Wiki Loves Art.
Regards
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 http://www.wikimedia.ch
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
The Program Evaluation & Design team is here when needed. Evaluation is voluntary, and can only help to show you what an impact your program (i.e. WLM) is making, and to see how you can make a bigger impact, especially for "less bang for your buck" as we say in the US (meaning "more impact for less input - money/time/people")
Anyone who responded to our last survey will be contacted to share data from last years Wiki Loves Monuments. This is going to help us learn more about the type of data specifically you're gathering and how we can work with you, if you wish, to make better tools and share what you've done to make an awesome event even more awesome with others.
New blog is here: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/09/27/survey-strong-culture-of-evaluation-roo...
If you're someone in charge of collecting data and parsing it for Wiki Loves Monuments in your country/town/whatever, and you did not receive the most recent program evaluation survey, and want to share your data with us in the survey launching today, please contact me. We know you are all busy, but, your participation would be deeply appreciated.
And our new portal launches next week, but, you can find us on meta here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programs
Folks can contact me off list if they want to explore partnering with me to help them evaluate their program. I'm doing one right now with WM UK for edit-a-thons.
-Sarah
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:17 AM, Àlex Hinojo alexhinojo@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I do agree with Lodewijk. Once the contest is finished, we need to have some calmed discussion on what do we want 2014 to be. Some contests have raisen up and we all have pro/cons feelings and experiences.
Some options have already been raised. We could also use some of the program evaluation techniques in order to make a deep avaluation on the project. Sarah, can you help on this? Regarding the Wiki Loves Public Art, I do agree that a wider Wiki Loves Art concept could be a great idea.
So should we stat this debate formally in some wiki page once the contest has finished?
-- Sent from a mobile device
Hello Lodewijk,
I want to thank you for this statement, I think it's really important that you give the signal that it may be the time to take the time to think about the future of WLM in other words than just "how we do it again".
In Switzerland I've been really critical about WLM the last two years, but I have always spent hours for this contest and I will continue to do so it in the future, but I think it's really good if we relax a little bit and try to get the big picture.
My main critic was that to have a successful contest on ALL aspect, you need a full team of people ready to take care of all aspects of the organization. Having this team do not mean that everything will be easy, there are always challenge, and these challenges are also part of the Fun when it's about something you like. If you do not have this team, you may have a successful contest on the number of participant aspect, number of pictures, but is it successful in term oh happiness of the organizing team?
For example in 2011 I've been the one who prepare the calendar with the winning pictures, it cost me hours of work, sleepless night because our printer was so professional that he return me the file always saying "here the line is 0.5 mm to low" , it was hard but it's a really good moment, because I'm proud of the results.
These year I try to help to have the list in french in Italian, I spent hours on that, I receive no answer when I was lost, I receive only "instructions" about how to do the things. No pleasure, no proudness and even worth, no results.
I'm not angry, I just want to make the point that it's not the difficulty of the task that matters, it's the willingness of a volunteer to accomplish it and the personal satisfaction he can have.
I'm personally tired of hearing "you should motivate volunteers", who on earth will ask on wikipedia to a mediawiki specialist to wrote an article on an extinct plant species??? Why should it be different in Chapters? People join the chapters for several reason, they have only one common interest "free knowledge".
Bottom Line I think it's really good if individual or chapter are innovative, it's even better when the acquired knowledge can be transferred to another individual or chapter who want to replicate it , but I'm really not convince about the necessity of the International contest, about the institutionalization of the contest, all this aspect decreased the freedom of action of each chapter or individual.
I want to say that WLM is awesome, it's the counterpart of Wikipedia, nobody was thinking that's possible, but it happens, but like for Wikipedia, it's not because it happens once that it can happen another time.
Charles
___________________________________________________________ I use this email for mailing list only.
Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge – www.wikimedia.ch Skype: charles.andres.wmch IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
Le 26 sept. 2013 à 15:37, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org a écrit :
As I also indicated elsewhere, I have my doubts about some of these conclusions. Yes, there's enthusiasm for many different initiatives (the session at Wikimania had a focus on improving the concept and surfacing innovation), but we should reconsider the picture as a whole. I'm not convinced that we should continue with Wiki Loves Monuments should be repeated in 2014, but that it would perhaps be good to pause it for one or two years, at the benefit of Wiki Loves Earth.
I think that we should have a more in-depth discussion after Wiki Loves Monuments has finished (end of October), about what the path for the next year should be. I personally think that we can only run one major competition on a large scale internationally at a time - and perhaps a few tryouts parallel to it in individual countries. Also, I think it would be wise to reconsider exchanging Wiki Loves Public Art for the internationally more realistic Wiki Loves Art (using museums and their contents rather than things on the streets).
In any case, thanks for publishing the notes, lets be careful with extrapolation enthusiasm into big picture results.
Lodewijk
2013/9/25 Ganesh Paudel gpaudel@gmail.com Hi Beat and all, Conducting Wiki Loves Earth and Wiki Loves Public Art are good to start.
We have many media in the commons especially photographs unused in any project. Wiki-RIC concept is to have a photo campaign for meaningful use. That's why it is considered important and rated highest in the conference. Let's think this aspect of Wiki RIC positively.
Best,
Ganesh K. Paudel
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Estermann Beat beat.estermann@bfh.ch wrote: Dear all,
Today, I have transferred the documentation of the Wiki Loves Monuments Future Workshop (Wikimania 2013, Hong Kong) to the WLM portal:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/WLM_Fut...
Given the results of the workshop and the feedbacks received from the participants so far, it seems that we are heading for three international photo contests next year:
Wiki Loves MonumentsWiki Loves EarthWiki Loves Public ArtThere was also a fourth proposal, “WikiRIC – Requested Image Competition” that was very highly rated by the workshop participants. – I think it would be great to see also a pilot project implementing this idea during next year. To my knowledge, no project group has formed yet. Those who signaled their interest are therefore warmly invited to coordinate the formation of a project team! (let me know if you need the contacts of the people that were interested to help implementing this approach!)
Suggestions for the next steps:
I think it would be great if for each contest a core group for 2014 would form that:
sets up an international project page for 2014, so interested countries can sign upsets up a mailing list for the coordination of the contest (in case this hasn’t happened yet)follows up on the evaluation of this year’s contests and starts working on the improvements for next year (some improvements might concern the institutional setup, so it would be wise to start early)Furthermore, I would suggest, that the coordinators of the three thematic contests get together (online), to discuss:
when which contest is going to take place in 2014 (this year we had an overlap between WLPA and WLE, which is probably not ideal)how to tackle the technical issues in 2014 (there are many potential synergies, and there is also a lot of room for improvement)Kind regards,
Beat
Beat Estermann Research Associate
Berne University of Applied Sciences E-Government Institute Morgartenstrasse 2a Postfach 305 CH-3000 Bern 22
beat.estermann@bfh.ch www.e-government.bfh.ch
Phone +41 31 848 34 30 Phone (direct number) +41 31 848 34 38 Fax +41 31 848 34 31
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi Beat,
I've been thinking about the future too. I wanted to send something in October, but it looks like we already started. As you know I was one of the people who started Wiki Loves Monuments a couple of years ago and I organized it for three years (Netherlands 2010, Netherlands/Europe 2011 and worldwide 2012) and this year I got dragged in to fix some technical issues. We've been thinking why we are doing this long before the whole program design and evaluation started.
Back in 2009 we did Wiki Loves Art (see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Art_Netherlands). We enjoyed doing this and it was quite a success. We didn't want to repeat it at that time because it took a lot of staff time and that was something we didn't have at that time. We did like the concept of a photo competition. Somewhere at the start of 2010 the Dutch windmill project achieved their goals of having an article for every windmill. That project had been running for a while and one of the first steps was to create lists of all windmills in the Netherlands. We really liked the concept of lists because this meant we had clearly (measurable) goals. After negotiating with the Rijksdienst voor Cultureel Erfgoed we got the dataset of all 60.000 Rijksmonumenten in the Netherlands. These were put online by volunteers as lists.
Those three factors were the basis for Wiki Loves Monuments. We did a photo competition to get these lists illustrated. We're at 80% illustrated now by the way :-)
From 2011 we started organizing this in a federative fashion. I really like this way of organizing something. This way everyone is going in the same direction, but still have plenty of freedom to do things on a local basis. To make it clear to everyone why we're doing this and to help making (though) decisions we wrote down https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments/Philosophy . On top of that Wiki Loves Monuments helped to start or improve wikiprojects about cultural heritage. Wiki Loves Monuments and Wiki Loves Art are excellent instruments to establish or improve relations with GLAMs.
At this point in time I think it's good to not do Wiki Loves Monuments next year. We accomplished a lot and the effects are wearing off. So what's next? I like photo competitions but we might have a bit of tunnel vision here. Everyone seems to be focusing on doing one or more photo competitions next year. We don't have to do anything related with photos and we don't have to do anything this big. Bigger doesn't mean it's better. If we keep focussing on photo competitions we become one trick organizations.
Some lessons learned over the years: * Clear goals and philosophy are important * The 5 pillars (easy, fun, local, help Wikipedia, quick and visible results) work * We are very bad at communication as a movement, extra effort should be invested in that * Having lists of what we want works much better than a vague goal * People have a hard time sticking to a timeline * Project management is new for a lot of people. Learning some basic project management skills help a lot * Federative approach make it scalable * In person events are fun! * Copyright laws can make it very difficult
So the question for next year is: What are the goals we want to achieve? I'll list some possible goals based on WLM: * Help Wikipedia/wikiprojects (could be your local heritage project or another) * Attract new users * Increase (photographic?) coverage of a certain subject * Connect online and offline (increase the social coherence of your community) * Make people aware of the fact you can edit Wikipedia * Capacity & community building (organizers learn how to work together on a big project) * Establish or improve relations with cultural heritage organizations/GLAMs * International cooperation (work together with people from different countries to achieve the same goals) * Break a world record
So let's be creative. For example: We could continue with cultural heritage. Let's organize a writing competition. You can score points by writing or improving articles about historic buildings (monuments) in any of the participating countries in any language. Extra points for quality. Every country submits the n most important monuments in their country. If you write something about one of those you get bonus points too.
You can do a bit of brainstorming to see what else you come up with. All these ideas and the Wiki Loves * ideas should be evaluated based on the goals.
Maarten
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org