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Federico Leva (Nemo)

19 Jun 2014 19 Jun '14

6:15 p.m.

Who was using said email addresses? It seems they relied on a hack and have been discontinued right now: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140757/ Nemo

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Vicenç

19 Jun 19 Jun

6:38 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Email info(a)wikilovesmonuments.cat is a redirect to OTRS queue wlm-ad. I have tested it right now in Ticket#2014061910016974. Anyway, I think we won't use it anymore. Vicenç

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Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:15:10 +0200 From: nemowiki(a)gmail.com To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wiki Loves Monuments] ...(a)wikilovesmonuments.{be,cat,eu,nl,org} Who was using said email addresses? It seems they relied on a hack and have been discontinued right now: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140757/ Nemo _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Jeremy Baron

6:54 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

On Jun 19, 2014 2:38 PM, "Vicenç" <vriullop(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

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Email info(a)wikilovesmonuments.cat is a redirect to OTRS queue wlm-ad. I

Vicenç

20 Jun 20 Jun

2:43 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Allright. I have requested our techy team to disable this email adress (DNS or whatsoever, I dunno), it has been removed from website wikilovesmonuments.cat and I have requested in otrs-wiki to close wlm-ad queue. Vicenç Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:51 +0000 From: jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] ...(a)wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org} On Jun 19, 2014 2:38 PM, "Vicenç" <vriullop(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

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Email info(a)wikilovesmonuments.cat is a redirect to OTRS queue wlm-ad. I have tested it right now in Ticket#2014061910016974. Anyway, I think we won't use it anymore.

It will break. Inaction is not an option. There is a well defined set of valid options: * move mail host (MX records) for that domain somewhere else (not WMF) (and then tell an OTRS admin and this list about your plans) or * keep mail going to OTRS and tell this list about your plans so someone (e.g. me or Nemo) can help file an RT ticket to fix the current configuration problem * if you really don't want the mail coming there then remove DNS records for that domain so that bounced mail will have a more accurate error message. also remove references to that address from any web pages that might mention it. (again then tell this list and an OTRS admin about your intentions) -Jeremy _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

R W

21 Jun 21 Jun

9:54 a.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Hello, How can we get @wikilovesmonuments.{be,eu,nl,org} work again? .nl is needed for the Dutch team who is currently working on expanding the lists, .be for the Belgian team which is currently working on organizing WLM. .eu and .org will be needed as well, if it is not in short term than certainly next year. Romaine 2014-06-20 16:43 GMT+02:00 Vicenç <vriullop(a)hotmail.com>om>:

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Allright. I have requested our techy team to disable this email adress (DNS or whatsoever, I dunno), it has been removed from website wikilovesmonuments.cat and I have requested in otrs-wiki to close wlm-ad queue. Vicenç ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:54:51 +0000 From: jeremy(a)tuxmachine.com To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] ...(a)wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org} On Jun 19, 2014 2:38 PM, "Vicenç" <vriullop(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

Email info(a)wikilovesmonuments.cat is a redirect to OTRS queue wlm-ad. I

have tested it right now in Ticket#2014061910016974. Anyway, I think we won't use it anymore. It will break. Inaction is not an option. There is a well defined set of valid options: * move mail host (MX records) for that domain somewhere else (not WMF) (and then tell an OTRS admin and this list about your plans) or * keep mail going to OTRS and tell this list about your plans so someone (e.g. me or Nemo) can help file an RT ticket to fix the current configuration problem * if you really don't want the mail coming there then remove DNS records for that domain so that bounced mail will have a more accurate error message. also remove references to that address from any web pages that might mention it. (again then tell this list and an OTRS admin about your intentions) -Jeremy _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Maarten Dammers

22 Jun 22 Jun

2:19 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Faidon and all, Federico Leva (Nemo) schreef op 19-6-2014 20:15:

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Who was using said email addresses? It seems they relied on a hack and have been discontinued right now: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140757/

This is not a hack, this is how OTRS has been setup for yours. We have quite a few emailaddresses for WLM, 45 to be exact. The complete overview is at https://otrs-wiki.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_email_addresses Please make sure that wikilovesmonuments.be, wikilovesmonuments.by, wikilovesmonuments.cat, wikilovesmonuments.eu, wikilovesmonuments.nl, wikilovesmonuments.org, wikilovesmonuments.pk and wikilovesmonuments.se continue to work in OTRS. If that means that some MX records need to be updated: Tell us where to point it to. The way this is currently handled from the WMF up until now is not that nice. You're causing a lot of unrest. Now you have the opportunity to correct that. Maarten

Faidon Liambotis

2:36 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Hi Maarten, (Cc me on replies) On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 04:19:11PM +0200, Maarten Dammers wrote:

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I saw, which is why the commit message mentioned these explicitly :) Pointing MX records of *domains* completely unknown to us, to our frontend mailservers, without ever telling us about it, and expecting to find their way inside the infrastructure and reach the OTRS box *is* a hack, and one I'm about to correct :) The WLM domains were the only ones that were like that, FWIW -- they are the exception, as far as I'm aware.

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Please make sure that wikilovesmonuments.be, wikilovesmonuments.by, wikilovesmonuments.cat, wikilovesmonuments.eu, wikilovesmonuments.nl, wikilovesmonuments.org, wikilovesmonuments.pk and wikilovesmonuments.se continue to work in OTRS. If that means that some MX records need to be updated: Tell us where to point it to.

Is there a reason on why these domains are not under our control, i.e. at least served by Wikimedia nameservers, if not owned by the WMF? I'd prefer to not have to coordinate mailserver transitions with multiple parties; plus, I'd like us to have a homogeneous policy regarding our domains and treat them all the same (we're not in an email hosting provider). I can help you migrate the contents of these zones to the Wikimedia infrastructure, where anyone would be able to submit (or peer-review) changes via Gerrit.

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The way this is currently handled from the WMF up until now is not that nice. You're causing a lot of unrest. Now you have the opportunity to correct that.

What is causing unrest exactly? Apologies anyway. Thanks, Faidon

Maarten Dammers

3:12 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Hi Faidon, Faidon Liambotis schreef op 22-6-2014 16:36:

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Hi Maarten, (Cc me on replies) On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 04:19:11PM +0200, Maarten Dammers wrote:

I saw, which is why the commit message mentioned these explicitly :)

This is not the way to communicate with volunteer community members.

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Pointing MX records of *domains* completely unknown to us, to our frontend mailservers, without ever telling us about it, and expecting to find their way inside the infrastructure and reach the OTRS box *is* a hack, and one I'm about to correct :)

Define "us". All has been documented on the OTRS wiki and setup together with the OTRS admins.

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The WLM domains were the only ones that were like that, FWIW -- they are the exception, as far as I'm aware.

Wiki Loves Monuments is not a WMF project, it's a chapters project so the domain names are owned by the chapters. I personally don't care how it's organized as long as you don't break it.

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I can help you migrate the contents of these zones to the Wikimedia infrastructure, where anyone would be able to submit (or peer-review) changes via Gerrit.

I don't know if the chapters want that.

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The way this is currently handled from the WMF up until now is not that nice. You're causing a lot of unrest. Now you have the opportunity to correct that.

What is causing unrest exactly? Apologies anyway.

You come out of the blue telling people their emailaddresses and OTRS queues will stop functioning. Some countries are working on organizing it right now. Broken email is not something they want. Maarten

Faidon Liambotis

3:51 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Maarten, On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 05:12:22PM +0200, Maarten Dammers wrote:

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Define "us". All has been documented on the OTRS wiki and setup together with the OTRS admins.

Us = the system administrators of the email servers where people pointed the MX records to. Wikimedia's main mail relays (mchenry & sodium) are not under the purview of the OTRS admins. (I don't even have access to the OTRS wiki; nor should I need to). we never provided any gurantees to anyone that these hostnames will remain forever the same and will be used as email servers (we knew, in fact, that the exact opposite holds). Nor did we ever -to my knowledge- said that it's okay for those systems to be used in this way. The fact that they happily relayed email to OTRS was a happy accident. mchenry is about to be decomissioned -- it's one of the last boxes in Tampa, our old datacenter. The only reason we are discussing this now instead of mail for these domains being silently broken soon *because we didn't know about them* is because I noticed these domains entirely by accident by grepping through our logs. Now, can we get constructive? Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list? Thanks, Faidon

R W

8:54 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Hello Faidon, First I must say, I am very happy that it is communicated, that is very welcome. It is however not pleasant for the volunteers who have to work with it are given the impression that if it is not under WMF, that somehow it is less important or something... Please realize, WMF is maintaining the infrastructure not for itself but for the whole Wikimedia movement. For historical and some practical reasons, some parts are maintained/organized by chapters who do that to support the volunteers who all strive to improve the content of the projects. Please try to act like this matter is divided over two separate departments who need to work together here, if that is kept in mind it gives a much better impression and works better I think. I do not think that it matters if there was given a guarantee or not, that is not the point. The fact that we could use these addresses is because it was set up this way, absolutely not a happy accident. There is also a very good reason to use these e-mail addresses, they look more trustworthy for the public to use. For me this stuff is totally unknown. I have no idea what is meant. What I do know is that we would like to keep using these addresses for sending and receiving e-mails through the OTRS system. If I am not mistaken, Siebrand is the person who has set this up or is maintaining it. I do not think he is on this mailinglist. Romaine 2014-06-22 17:51 GMT+02:00 Faidon Liambotis <faidon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

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Maarten, On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 05:12:22PM +0200, Maarten Dammers wrote:

Define "us". All has been documented on the OTRS wiki and setup together with the OTRS admins.

Faidon Liambotis

26 Jun 26 Jun

2:44 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 06:51:39PM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:

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Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list?

Saqib Qayyum

2:52 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

I'm behind "wikilovesmonumets.pk"

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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:44:19 +0300 From: faidon(a)wikimedia.org To: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] ...(a)wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org} On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 06:51:39PM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:

Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list?

Anyone? Can someone bring me in touch with the tech administrators of the WLM domains? Mail to these domains will stop working unless we can coordinate with them. To be clear: this is not a threat or some kind of WMF evil plan; this is purely a technical matter that has to do with the decommissioning of Tampa and a server that has been online since 2006. (Cc me on replies please) Thanks, Faidon _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Nicolas VIGNERON

2:54 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

2014-06-26 16:44 GMT+02:00 Faidon Liambotis <faidon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

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On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 06:51:39PM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:

Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list?

R W

3:05 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

Hello Faidon, These four adresses are set up bij Wikimedia Netherlands: @wikilovesmonuments.{be, eu, nl, org} Some minutes ago I forwarded your e-mail to the director of the office of WMNL. The 'directeur' mentioned at http://wikimedia.nl/pagina/wie-is-wie If no reaction is given, please let me know, then I take further action to get this done. Romaine 2014-06-26 16:54 GMT+02:00 Nicolas VIGNERON <vigneron.nicolas(a)gmail.com>om>:

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2014-06-26 16:44 GMT+02:00 Faidon Liambotis <faidon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>: On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 06:51:39PM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:

Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list?

If I'm not mistaken, you can contact : - Vicenç, vriullop(a)hotmail.com for wlm.cat - Romaine, romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com for wlm.be and wlm.nl (and wlm.org ?) - no idea for wlm.eu... (Marteen ?) There not the techies but they could probably point you to them. Cdlt, ~nicolas _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Siebrand Mazeland

4:43 p.m.

New subject: ...@wikilovesmonuments.{be, cat, eu, nl, org}

I maintain .nl, .be and .eu. Info should be in Whois (admin at Wikimedia dot nl). .com and .org are with WMDE. -- Siebrand Mazeland Kitano ICT M: +31 6 50 69 1239 Skype: siebrand

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Op 26 jun. 2014 om 16:54 heeft Nicolas VIGNERON <vigneron.nicolas(a)gmail.com> het volgende geschreven: 2014-06-26 16:44 GMT+02:00 Faidon Liambotis <faidon(a)wikimedia.org>rg>:

On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 06:51:39PM +0300, Faidon Liambotis wrote:

Are the people that own and/or manage these domains on this list?

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participants (9)

Faidon Liambotis
Federico Leva (Nemo)
Jeremy Baron
Maarten Dammers
Nicolas VIGNERON
R W
Saqib Qayyum
Siebrand Mazeland
Vicenç