Hi all,
In Wikimania I had the chance to exchange some experience from WLM in Italy with a guy interested in organising WLM in Greece which has a very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage, very similar to the Italian one in many aspects.
Unfortunately none of us had a business card and I have an awful memory for names, maybe he is on this mailing list or somebody can help me recalling his name?
Thank you.
Cristian
I don't remember the name of the guy who asked about it during the session, but the other person from Greece, who I'm sure is involved, is named Marios Magioladitis. User:Magioladitis on Wikipedia.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Cristian Consonni kikkocristian@gmail.comwrote:
Hi all,
In Wikimania I had the chance to exchange some experience from WLM in Italy with a guy interested in organising WLM in Greece which has a very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage, very similar to the Italian one in many aspects.
Unfortunately none of us had a business card and I have an awful memory for names, maybe he is on this mailing list or somebody can help me recalling his name?
Thank you.
Cristian
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi, I'm from Ukraine (WMUA) and we also "enjoy"
very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage
so called "lack of panorama freedom" so we (perhaps not me personally but still) are very much interested in experience interchange how to handle that tough and nasty matters.
Regards, Pavlo
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Ynhockey ynhockey@gmail.com wrote:
I don't remember the name of the guy who asked about it during the session, but the other person from Greece, who I'm sure is involved, is named Marios Magioladitis. User:Magioladitis on Wikipedia.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Cristian Consonni < kikkocristian@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
In Wikimania I had the chance to exchange some experience from WLM in Italy with a guy interested in organising WLM in Greece which has a very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage, very similar to the Italian one in many aspects.
Unfortunately none of us had a business card and I have an awful memory for names, maybe he is on this mailing list or somebody can help me recalling his name?
Thank you.
Cristian
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
In Wiki Loves Public Art we got some experience with non free artworks. Although in Spain exists freedom of panorama, some artworks may be indoors were FoP does not apply. We marked all doubtful listed artworks with a parameter showing an icon or a placeholder with a notice like "we think you can not upload a free photo of this artwork" and they were excluded from contest.
Example: https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_de_l%27art_p%C3%BAblic_de_Barcelona
Vicenç
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:35:49 +0300 From: pavlo.shevelo@gmail.com To: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM in Greece
Hi, I'm from Ukraine (WMUA) and we also "enjoy"
very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage
so called "lack of panorama freedom" so we (perhaps not me personally but still) are very much interested in experience interchange how to handle that tough and nasty matters.
Regards, Pavlo
Smart idea and thanks for sharing it, Vicenç
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Vicenç Riullop vriullop@hotmail.comwrote:
In Wiki Loves Public Art we got some experience with non free artworks. Although in Spain exists freedom of panorama, some artworks may be indoors were FoP does not apply. We marked all doubtful listed artworks with a parameter showing an icon or a placeholder with a notice like "we think you can not upload a free photo of this artwork" and they were excluded from contest.
Example: https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llista_de_l%27art_p%C3%BAblic_de_Barcelona
Vicenç
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 20:35:49 +0300 From: pavlo.shevelo@gmail.com To: wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM in Greece
Hi, I'm from Ukraine (WMUA) and we also "enjoy"
very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and heritage
so called "lack of panorama freedom" so we (perhaps not me personally but still) are very much interested in experience interchange how to handle that tough and nasty matters.
Regards, Pavlo
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
2013/8/20 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shevelo@gmail.com:
Hi, I'm from Ukraine (WMUA) and we also "enjoy"
very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and
heritage so called "lack of panorama freedom" so we (perhaps not me personally but still) are very much interested in experience interchange how to handle that tough and nasty matters.
Hi Pavlo,
I don't know in details the situation of Ukraine but for Italy and for what I have heard, also Greece the situation is worse than the lack of panorama freedom (we also don't have that, if you wonder, anyway).
The point is that both Italy and Greece (and AFAIK also Egypt) the law says that if the photo is depicting something which is considered by the State part of "cultural heritage" then there are addtional restriction other then copyright.
In practice, in both countries when you want to publish a photo of a monument (and putting it on a website is considered "publishing") you have to ask for a permission/authorization from some governamental agency (in Italy they are called "Soprintendenze per i Beni Culturaly" in Greece something along the line of "Counsel for Archeological Heritage") indicated by the law. To give this permission this agencies may require you the paiement of some fee/tax.
This depends on the fact that the law considers the monuments in his territory as "assets" of the State and therefore they ask for a "compensation" when you want to make photos of it.
Please note that in principle this has nothing to do with copyright (and therefore with panorama freedom). This applies to everything that the law and these governamental agencies consider "cultural heritage", they may as well be archeological remains and everything still apply (and, /ça va sans dire/, both Italy and Greece have a lot of monuments which are well beyond any copyright protection)
Details on how this is implemented vary (and possibily Greece is in a worse situation than Italy), but for example in Italy we do not know if this law is applicable to foreign (i.e. non-italian) citizens. The point is that copyright laws are applicable in all countries because there international trade agreements that say that is valid in all countries we do not know if these kind of law have the same applicability of copyright.
C
Thank you for very informative note, Cristian
I should start from Oh my God! ...and we blame our (Ukrainian) rules and institutions!
No, we have no issues as tough as you described with governmental institutions (both national and local) and some of them are even grateful (no money though :)) as we somehow help to verify their lists and to illustrate them.
So the only issues for us are with copyright owners, so for 'not so old' monuments etc.
Thanks again,
Pavlo
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Cristian Consonni kikkocristian@gmail.comwrote:
2013/8/20 Pavlo Shevelo pavlo.shevelo@gmail.com:
Hi, I'm from Ukraine (WMUA) and we also "enjoy"
very complicated and unfriendly law for photos of monuments and
heritage so called "lack of panorama freedom" so we (perhaps not me personally but still) are very much interested in experience interchange how to handle
that
tough and nasty matters.
Hi Pavlo,
I don't know in details the situation of Ukraine but for Italy and for what I have heard, also Greece the situation is worse than the lack of panorama freedom (we also don't have that, if you wonder, anyway).
The point is that both Italy and Greece (and AFAIK also Egypt) the law says that if the photo is depicting something which is considered by the State part of "cultural heritage" then there are addtional restriction other then copyright.
In practice, in both countries when you want to publish a photo of a monument (and putting it on a website is considered "publishing") you have to ask for a permission/authorization from some governamental agency (in Italy they are called "Soprintendenze per i Beni Culturaly" in Greece something along the line of "Counsel for Archeological Heritage") indicated by the law. To give this permission this agencies may require you the paiement of some fee/tax.
This depends on the fact that the law considers the monuments in his territory as "assets" of the State and therefore they ask for a "compensation" when you want to make photos of it.
Please note that in principle this has nothing to do with copyright (and therefore with panorama freedom). This applies to everything that the law and these governamental agencies consider "cultural heritage", they may as well be archeological remains and everything still apply (and, /ça va sans dire/, both Italy and Greece have a lot of monuments which are well beyond any copyright protection)
Details on how this is implemented vary (and possibily Greece is in a worse situation than Italy), but for example in Italy we do not know if this law is applicable to foreign (i.e. non-italian) citizens. The point is that copyright laws are applicable in all countries because there international trade agreements that say that is valid in all countries we do not know if these kind of law have the same applicability of copyright.
C
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
On 20.08.2013 20:56, Pavlo Shevelo wrote:
Thank you for very informative note, Cristian I should start from Oh my God! ...and we blame our (Ukrainian) rules and institutions!
No, we have no issues as tough as you described with governmental institutions (both national and local) and some of them are even grateful (no money though :)) as we somehow help to verify their lists and to illustrate them.
So the only issues for us are with copyright owners, so for 'not so old' monuments etc.
Thanks again,
Pavlo
The problem with Ukraine is that over 50% of monuments are not free due to the FoP restrictions. This is unfortunate, and it is also unfortunate that it was already clear last year, but nobody cared to mark everything post-1945 in the lists as not eligible. There is still some time to do it, but not too much.
Cheers Yaroslav
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org