Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
1) There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members' family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Hi, For your first question, I don't know if it's authorized but I can tell you that we added the same rule in french WLM : jury member's family are excluded from competition. It's a common rule in this kind of competition in France at least.
Sylvain.
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi Illia,
Thanks for your email. Family members of the jury members are definitely a tricky terrain. If your rules stated that family members of jury members cannot take part, I think it is totally valid to disqualify these images.
So first of all: yes, of course national rules can be more elaborate than the international rules. This is quite common actually - for example, several chapter give out 'Special Awards' or take other national issues in consideration. Conflict of Interest is one of these.
Secondly, what qualifies as a family member, is a cultural question - this is something you should probably consider in the Ukrainian context. I personally definitely would consider it a family member, but I'm not very Ukrainian. It becomes more tricky with nephews etc.
Thirdly you ask if the organizing committee can overrule the jury - now this is a really tricky one. Again there is some cultural background here probably. I'm used to a situation where the jury is considered the neutral body to make final decisions regarding prizes, and nobody would come up with an idea to overrule the jury, unless there are legal reasons or rules that require that. But in another country, it might very well be common to let the jury only be responsible for ranking, and then the organizers make the formal decision. This is something that is probably to be determined by your rules.
I hope this helps.
Best, Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I completely agree with Lodewijk's view, and I think that the organizing committee has made a correct decision.
Best, Samat
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.orgwrote:
Hi Illia,
Thanks for your email. Family members of the jury members are definitely a tricky terrain. If your rules stated that family members of jury members cannot take part, I think it is totally valid to disqualify these images.
So first of all: yes, of course national rules can be more elaborate than the international rules. This is quite common actually - for example, several chapter give out 'Special Awards' or take other national issues in consideration. Conflict of Interest is one of these.
Secondly, what qualifies as a family member, is a cultural question - this is something you should probably consider in the Ukrainian context. I personally definitely would consider it a family member, but I'm not very Ukrainian. It becomes more tricky with nephews etc.
Thirdly you ask if the organizing committee can overrule the jury - now this is a really tricky one. Again there is some cultural background here probably. I'm used to a situation where the jury is considered the neutral body to make final decisions regarding prizes, and nobody would come up with an idea to overrule the jury, unless there are legal reasons or rules that require that. But in another country, it might very well be common to let the jury only be responsible for ranking, and then the organizers make the formal decision. This is something that is probably to be determined by your rules.
I hope this helps.
Best, Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Our regulation excludes members of the board of Wikimedia Polska, as well, as their family relatives and employees. Which means for example that my doughter cannot win the Polish contest :-) Polish civil code precisely defines the meaning ot the "family relative" - I guess in other jursdictions similar definition can be found.
I guess in case of the global jury - as the pictures are pre-selected by local juries, there is no need for similar regulation.
2013/11/1 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
Hi Illia,
Thanks for your email. Family members of the jury members are definitely a tricky terrain. If your rules stated that family members of jury members cannot take part, I think it is totally valid to disqualify these images.
So first of all: yes, of course national rules can be more elaborate than the international rules. This is quite common actually - for example, several chapter give out 'Special Awards' or take other national issues in consideration. Conflict of Interest is one of these.
Secondly, what qualifies as a family member, is a cultural question - this is something you should probably consider in the Ukrainian context. I personally definitely would consider it a family member, but I'm not very Ukrainian. It becomes more tricky with nephews etc.
Thirdly you ask if the organizing committee can overrule the jury - now this is a really tricky one. Again there is some cultural background here probably. I'm used to a situation where the jury is considered the neutral body to make final decisions regarding prizes, and nobody would come up with an idea to overrule the jury, unless there are legal reasons or rules that require that. But in another country, it might very well be common to let the jury only be responsible for ranking, and then the organizers make the formal decision. This is something that is probably to be determined by your rules.
I hope this helps.
Best, Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Почитав я цей діалог і мені стало дуже соромно, що я є членом цього оргкомітету...
2013/11/2 Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com
Our regulation excludes members of the board of Wikimedia Polska, as well, as their family relatives and employees. Which means for example that my doughter cannot win the Polish contest :-) Polish civil code precisely defines the meaning ot the "family relative" - I guess in other jursdictions similar definition can be found.
I guess in case of the global jury - as the pictures are pre-selected by local juries, there is no need for similar regulation.
2013/11/1 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
Hi Illia,
Thanks for your email. Family members of the jury members are definitely
a
tricky terrain. If your rules stated that family members of jury members cannot take part, I think it is totally valid to disqualify these images.
So first of all: yes, of course national rules can be more elaborate than the international rules. This is quite common actually - for example, several chapter give out 'Special Awards' or take other national issues
in
consideration. Conflict of Interest is one of these.
Secondly, what qualifies as a family member, is a cultural question -
this
is something you should probably consider in the Ukrainian context. I personally definitely would consider it a family member, but I'm not very Ukrainian. It becomes more tricky with nephews etc.
Thirdly you ask if the organizing committee can overrule the jury - now
this
is a really tricky one. Again there is some cultural background here probably. I'm used to a situation where the jury is considered the
neutral
body to make final decisions regarding prizes, and nobody would come up
with
an idea to overrule the jury, unless there are legal reasons or rules
that
require that. But in another country, it might very well be common to let the jury only be responsible for ranking, and then the organizers make
the
formal decision. This is something that is probably to be determined by
your
rules.
I hope this helps.
Best, Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the
competition,
which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can
disqualify
works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no
direct
objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it
would
be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to
present
this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it
was
seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to
violation
of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good
criteria?
- Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this
case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "wlm-ua" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wlm-ua+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
In the Philippines, members of the Wiki Loves Monuments organizing team cannot take part and jury members are not contestants. But in this case such rules should have been clear from the start. If there isn't any announcement of winners yet, the organizing committee should still be able to eliminate/disqualify entries, unless the jury members have compared their scores with one another.
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.comwrote:
Почитав я цей діалог і мені стало дуже соромно, що я є членом цього оргкомітету...
2013/11/2 Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com
Our regulation excludes members of the board of Wikimedia Polska, as well, as their family relatives and employees. Which means for example that my doughter cannot win the Polish contest :-) Polish civil code precisely defines the meaning ot the "family relative" - I guess in other jursdictions similar definition can be found.
I guess in case of the global jury - as the pictures are pre-selected by local juries, there is no need for similar regulation.
2013/11/1 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
Hi Illia,
Thanks for your email. Family members of the jury members are
definitely a
tricky terrain. If your rules stated that family members of jury members cannot take part, I think it is totally valid to disqualify these
images.
So first of all: yes, of course national rules can be more elaborate
than
the international rules. This is quite common actually - for example, several chapter give out 'Special Awards' or take other national issues
in
consideration. Conflict of Interest is one of these.
Secondly, what qualifies as a family member, is a cultural question -
this
is something you should probably consider in the Ukrainian context. I personally definitely would consider it a family member, but I'm not
very
Ukrainian. It becomes more tricky with nephews etc.
Thirdly you ask if the organizing committee can overrule the jury - now
this
is a really tricky one. Again there is some cultural background here probably. I'm used to a situation where the jury is considered the
neutral
body to make final decisions regarding prizes, and nobody would come up
with
an idea to overrule the jury, unless there are legal reasons or rules
that
require that. But in another country, it might very well be common to
let
the jury only be responsible for ranking, and then the organizers make
the
formal decision. This is something that is probably to be determined by
your
rules.
I hope this helps.
Best, Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the
competition,
which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the
correct
word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to
our
rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can
disqualify
works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no
direct
objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it
would
be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to
present
this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it
was
seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to
violation
of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good
criteria?
- Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in
this
case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "wlm-ua" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wlm-ua+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
З повагою, Андрій Бондаренко
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
You can easily fix my logic and language errors as well as hiding the truth by explaining your point of view to the international mailling list, but please use English as most of them don't understand Russian.
By the way "AND friends" has nothing to do with "родинні стосунки", and according to the good English dictionary - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/relative rel·a·tive *noun* \ˈre-lə-tiv\
: a member of your family
2013/11/1 Eugene Makhonko eugenmak@yandex.ua
Тогда уж нужно было писать как есть, а не как вы смогли перевести на английский:
"Family member" - "член семьи". А "родственник" - "relative".
Relatives and friends - будет точнее.
Но под термин "relative" можно подвести отношения не только родственников, но и друзей, знакомых, начальников, да мало ли кого. Конкретизируйте отношения, в которых состоят участник конкурса и член жури: имеют кровное родство, но являются членами разных семей, поскольку живут раздельно, в разных городах. И ещё, вы забыли написать, что я не являюсь матерью члену жури, а меня сняли с конкурса, поскольку я нахожусь в интимных отношениях с соавтором, который является кровным родственником члена жури.
Так что найдите себе более грамотного переводчика, чтобы более точно излагать суть проблемы, а то запутаете иностранных коллег очень сильно, и, чего доброго, станете их посмешищем. Мы уже смеёмся до упаду, и мои родственники, пардон, relative, тоже.
И где здесь место творчеству? По-моему вы никакого отношения к искусству фотографии не имеете, раз не с того конца оцениваете.
Вспоминается диалог из фильма "Зеркало треснуло" с Элизабет Тейлор:
- Вы были с ним в интимных отношениях?
- В Голливуде все были друг с другом в интимных отношениях.
Успехов в нелёгком деле выяснения отношений между участниками конкурса и членами жури!
02.11.2013, 00:07, "Ilya Korniyko" intracer@gmail.com:
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "wlm-ua" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wlm-ua+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
By the way: please be aware that we have not yet received the Ukrainian nominees. The original email in this thread suggested to me that they were already submitted. If they were, please re-submit by sending the list of URL's to me.
Thanks!
Lodewijk
2013/11/1 Ilya Korniyko intracer@gmail.com
You can easily fix my logic and language errors as well as hiding the truth by explaining your point of view to the international mailling list, but please use English as most of them don't understand Russian.
By the way "AND friends" has nothing to do with "родинні стосунки", and according to the good English dictionary - http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/relative rel·a·tive *noun* \ˈre-lə-tiv\
: a member of your family
2013/11/1 Eugene Makhonko eugenmak@yandex.ua
Тогда уж нужно было писать как есть, а не как вы смогли перевести на английский:
"Family member" - "член семьи". А "родственник" - "relative".
Relatives and friends - будет точнее.
Но под термин "relative" можно подвести отношения не только родственников, но и друзей, знакомых, начальников, да мало ли кого. Конкретизируйте отношения, в которых состоят участник конкурса и член жури: имеют кровное родство, но являются членами разных семей, поскольку живут раздельно, в разных городах. И ещё, вы забыли написать, что я не являюсь матерью члену жури, а меня сняли с конкурса, поскольку я нахожусь в интимных отношениях с соавтором, который является кровным родственником члена жури.
Так что найдите себе более грамотного переводчика, чтобы более точно излагать суть проблемы, а то запутаете иностранных коллег очень сильно, и, чего доброго, станете их посмешищем. Мы уже смеёмся до упаду, и мои родственники, пардон, relative, тоже.
И где здесь место творчеству? По-моему вы никакого отношения к искусству фотографии не имеете, раз не с того конца оцениваете.
Вспоминается диалог из фильма "Зеркало треснуло" с Элизабет Тейлор:
- Вы были с ним в интимных отношениях?
- В Голливуде все были друг с другом в интимных отношениях.
Успехов в нелёгком деле выяснения отношений между участниками конкурса и членами жури!
02.11.2013, 00:07, "Ilya Korniyko" intracer@gmail.com:
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "wlm-ua" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to wlm-ua+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
To my knowledge, there was no such rule at least in the first wlm competition in Switzerland. But it was clear at all points to the jury not to select somebody s fathers picture. No rule can make up for a lack of common sense and a certain sense of honor.
So, if you had a rule, i find your decision great. If there was no rule, i d never overrule the jury. The international jury will need no rule to not select this picture for any price, no matter how good it is.
To give another example we experienced where i would find a rule helpful: A single person submits multiple excellent images. The jury did not see the names when making the final decision and selected 3 images of this person into the final set of images. At a national level the jury wanted to give only one price to the person, because at the end its a peoples contest as well. there was a discussion how it would be possible to leave it to the international jury which of the 3 they like most, have 10 persons submitted, and give 10 prices to 10 persons on a national level.
Rupert Am 01.11.2013 21:07 schrieb "Ilya Korniyko" intracer@gmail.com:
Hi, Ukrainian organizing committe has trouble with one winner.
In 2012 the chapter board set rules for Ukrainian part of the competition, which contains a point that organizing committe members, jury and their family members (I don't know how to translate precisely, and the correct word matters here) cannot take part in the competition. According to our rules places are determined by jury but organizing committee can disqualify works.
This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. While we have no direct objections that this choice was unfair or biased, we thougth that it would be difficult to understand by other people and may harm the contest reputation. We decided not give the prize from the chapter but to present this photo among 10 best to international competition and say that it was seconf by jury decision but authors were not given prizes due to violation of the rules as the organizing committe decided.
Now the authors of this photo ask us questions
- There is no prohibition in the international rules for jury members'
family. Does our chapter have a right to add additional criterias? 2) Can a father be qualified as a family member? Is this a good criteria? 3) Is this ok for organizing committee to override jury decision in this case?
Oranizing committe, the winner and jury member in question are in copy.
Thank you, Illia
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
On 02/11/13 10:49, rupert THURNER wrote:
To my knowledge, there was no such rule at least in the first wlm competition in Switzerland. But it was clear at all points to the jury not to select somebody s fathers picture. No rule can make up for a lack of common sense and a certain sense of honor.
So, if you had a rule, i find your decision great. If there was no rule, i d never overrule the jury. The international jury will need no rule to not select this picture for any price, no matter how good it is.
To give another example we experienced where i would find a rule helpful: A single person submits multiple excellent images. The jury did not see the names when making the final decision and selected 3 images of this person into the final set of images. At a national level the jury wanted to give only one price to the person, because at the end its a peoples contest as well. there was a discussion how it would be possible to leave it to the international jury which of the 3 they like most, have 10 persons submitted, and give 10 prices to 10 persons on a national level.
Rupert
Giving out 10 prizes to 10 people is easy: give the prizes to #11 and #12. The question on which of his photos should represent them on international level is much harder. Although you could as well submit his three photos but only provide one prize (hopefully not too controversial, but it would be desirable that your contest had a “only one prize per head” rule).
My POV on the original questions : - Yes, I would consider “father” a family member. - The local organization is the gate for the international level, so it can ban a photo from entering there (actually I find more problematic that it is sent to the international round than it being discarded). - If the rules stated that no family members of the jury can participate, the jury decision was «buggy». Rejecting that photo and requesting a new result from the jury (typically just entering the next scored picture) is indeed the right thing to do.
If your chapter doesn't want a family member to win but your rules didn't state that, it would have been much shady decision, which is why I consider important that the rules are as detailed as possible, despite not really liking long legalese-like pages (promoting a summarised version ftw).
Ilya Korniyko, 01/11/2013 21:07:
[...] This year we found out only after final jury round that second place is authored by one of jury member's father an his wife. [...]
Who is "we" here? I suppose the juror in question knew. :) So it's hard to be confident about the impossibility of an influence. Your decision seems a reasonable compromise (and the board ratifications exist to ensure the chapter's procedures are respected), though being second in a contest is a prize in itself. We may have a precedent in a WMIT rule which requested the participants to have an email; I doubt we'd squalify a participant without one, but the rule would authorize us to avoid hunts to deliver prizes to an unreachable person.
Nemo
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org