Hi,
TL;DR: Did anybody consider using Wikidata items of Wikipedia templates to store multilingual template parameters mapping?
Full explanation: As in many other projects in the Wikimedia world, templates are one of the biggest challenges in developing the ContentTranslation extension.
Translating a template between languages is tedious - many templates are language-specific, many others have a corresponding template, but incompatible parameters, and even if the parameters are compatible, there is usually no comfortable mapping. Some work in that direction was done in DBpedia, but AFAIK it's far from complete.
In ContentTranslation we have a simplistic mechanism for mapping between template parameters in pairs of languages, with proof of concept for three templates. We can enhance it with more templates, but the question is how much can it scale.
Some templates shouldn't need such mapping at all - they should pull their data from Wikidata. This is gradually being done for infoboxes in some languages, and it's great.
But not all templates can be easily mapped to Wikidata data. For example - reference templates, various IPA and language templates, quotation formatting, and so on. For these, parameter mapping could be useful, but doing this for a single language pair doesn't seem robust and reminds me of the old ways in which interlanguage links were stored.
So, did anybody consider using Wikidata items of templates to store multilingual template parameters mapping?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Trying again... It's a really important topic for me.
How do I go about proposing storing information about templates parameters mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it sounds like something that could be implemented using the current properties, but thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2014-09-24 14:18 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il:
Hi,
TL;DR: Did anybody consider using Wikidata items of Wikipedia templates to store multilingual template parameters mapping?
Full explanation: As in many other projects in the Wikimedia world, templates are one of the biggest challenges in developing the ContentTranslation extension.
Translating a template between languages is tedious - many templates are language-specific, many others have a corresponding template, but incompatible parameters, and even if the parameters are compatible, there is usually no comfortable mapping. Some work in that direction was done in DBpedia, but AFAIK it's far from complete.
In ContentTranslation we have a simplistic mechanism for mapping between template parameters in pairs of languages, with proof of concept for three templates. We can enhance it with more templates, but the question is how much can it scale.
Some templates shouldn't need such mapping at all - they should pull their data from Wikidata. This is gradually being done for infoboxes in some languages, and it's great.
But not all templates can be easily mapped to Wikidata data. For example - reference templates, various IPA and language templates, quotation formatting, and so on. For these, parameter mapping could be useful, but doing this for a single language pair doesn't seem robust and reminds me of the old ways in which interlanguage links were stored.
So, did anybody consider using Wikidata items of templates to store multilingual template parameters mapping?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni:
Trying again... It's a really important topic for me.
How do I go about proposing storing information about templates parameters mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it sounds like something that could be implemented using the current properties, but thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome.
Hi Amir!
We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic!
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4].
I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, but I don't know where offhand.
Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the opposite direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the country property.
let me know if this helps :) -- daniel
[1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17
Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all together.
The context that interests me the most is translating an article in ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
Currently, in theory, it would: 1. Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the interlanguage link: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect 3. Find that name is foaf:name 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect 5. Find that foaf:name is naam
... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter.
Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking about performance.)
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
[1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de:
Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni:
Trying again... It's a really important topic for me.
How do I go about proposing storing information about templates
parameters
mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it
sounds
like something that could be implemented using the current properties,
but
thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome.
Hi Amir!
We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic!
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4].
I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, but I don't know where offhand.
Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the opposite direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the country property.
let me know if this helps :) -- daniel
[1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hi all,
What you can get from DBpedia is 1) template structure (all properties defined in a template) I am not sure why this was not included in the 2014 release but you can see an example in 3.9 [1] Our parser cannot handle very complex templates but it is a good start. I'll make sure these are included in the next release but it is also easy to create a service that extracts them on request
2) mappings wiki We are in the process of exporting our mappings in RDF using the [R2]RML vocabulary. We have code that does that for simple mappings but it's not ready to get merged yet. Hopefully we'll have this soon and will be quite easy to query and join. Even without that, we could get a partial functionality by translating & matching properties from #1
3) mappings wiki (ontology) links from ontology classes/properties to wikidata, at the moment they are stored in our wiki but could be stored in Wikidata instead as Daniel suggested.
Using all these and interlanguage links I think we can create a (decent) service that can work. I can suggest a DBpedia gsoc project for this if some people are willing to mentor a student [2].
What we would need from the Wikidata/DBpedia community is 1) more ontology links from DBpedia to Wikidata 2) contributions in the infobox mappings to cover more infoboxes for better coverage
Best, Dimitris
[1] http://downloads.dbpedia.org/3.9/en/template_parameters_en.ttl.bz2 [2] dbpedia.org/gsoc2015/ideas
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all together.
The context that interests me the most is translating an article in ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
Currently, in theory, it would:
- Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the
interlanguage link: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect 3. Find that name is foaf:name 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect 5. Find that foaf:name is naam
... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter.
Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking about performance.)
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
[1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de:
Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni:
Trying again... It's a really important topic for me.
How do I go about proposing storing information about templates
parameters
mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it
sounds
like something that could be implemented using the current properties,
but
thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome.
Hi Amir!
We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic!
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4].
I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, but I don't know where offhand.
Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the opposite direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the country property.
let me know if this helps :) -- daniel
[1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Using all these and interlanguage links I think we can create a (decent)
service that can work. I can suggest a DBpedia gsoc project for this if some people are willing to mentor a student [2].
I know very little about dbpedia, but if it helps, I'm willing to support it from the Wikipedia / ContentTranslation side.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-04 10:08 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Kontokostas jimkont@gmail.com:
Hi all,
What you can get from DBpedia is
- template structure (all properties defined in a template)
I am not sure why this was not included in the 2014 release but you can see an example in 3.9 [1] Our parser cannot handle very complex templates but it is a good start. I'll make sure these are included in the next release but it is also easy to create a service that extracts them on request
- mappings wiki
We are in the process of exporting our mappings in RDF using the [R2]RML vocabulary. We have code that does that for simple mappings but it's not ready to get merged yet. Hopefully we'll have this soon and will be quite easy to query and join. Even without that, we could get a partial functionality by translating & matching properties from #1
- mappings wiki (ontology)
links from ontology classes/properties to wikidata, at the moment they are stored in our wiki but could be stored in Wikidata instead as Daniel suggested.
Using all these and interlanguage links I think we can create a (decent) service that can work. I can suggest a DBpedia gsoc project for this if some people are willing to mentor a student [2].
What we would need from the Wikidata/DBpedia community is
- more ontology links from DBpedia to Wikidata
- contributions in the infobox mappings to cover more infoboxes for
better coverage
Best, Dimitris
[1] http://downloads.dbpedia.org/3.9/en/template_parameters_en.ttl.bz2 [2] dbpedia.org/gsoc2015/ideas
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all together.
The context that interests me the most is translating an article in ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
Currently, in theory, it would:
- Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the
interlanguage link: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect 3. Find that name is foaf:name 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect 5. Find that foaf:name is naam
... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter.
Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking about performance.)
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
[1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de:
Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni:
Trying again... It's a really important topic for me.
How do I go about proposing storing information about templates
parameters
mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and
it sounds
like something that could be implemented using the current properties,
but
thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome.
Hi Amir!
We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic!
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4].
I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, but I don't know where offhand.
Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the opposite direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the country property.
let me know if this helps :) -- daniel
[1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Kontokostas Dimitris
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Hi!
architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
"Name" would be a bit tricky since I'm not sure if we have property called "name" but for something like date of birth wouldn't it be useful to link it in the template to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P569 somehow? Is there such possibility?
With identifying properties, however - such as name - I'm not sure if this could be used.
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
Well, in dbpedia it says name is foaf:name, but this could only be appropriate for humans (and maybe only in specific contexts), for other entities "name" may have completely different semantics. In Wikidata, however, properties are generic, so I wonder if it would be possible to keep context. dbPedia obviously does have context but not sure where it would be in Wikidata.
"Name" would be a bit tricky since I'm not sure if we have property
called "name"
At this stage it's not actually important for me for the purposes of ContentTranslation to map it to a Wikidata property. Any mapping between parameter names in different languages would be enough.
One possibility is to store this mapping as a property at the Wikidata item page of the template. It would be a complex property, but it's not impossible.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Stas Malyshev smalyshev@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi!
architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
"Name" would be a bit tricky since I'm not sure if we have property called "name" but for something like date of birth wouldn't it be useful to link it in the template to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P569 somehow? Is there such possibility?
In DBpedia we have our own properties and the mappings should use these instead. Some exceptions exist for very popular vocabularies such as foaf:name but I am not sure if we should allow direct mappings to a wikidata property if an equivalent DBpedia property exists. In this case it's http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:BirthDate We already have some mappings in place but more are needed for complete coverage http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=wiki...
With identifying properties, however - such as name - I'm not sure if this could be used.
I agree that general properties such as name are difficult to interpret
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
Well, in dbpedia it says name is foaf:name, but this could only be appropriate for humans (and maybe only in specific contexts), for other entities "name" may have completely different semantics. In Wikidata, however, properties are generic, so I wonder if it would be possible to keep context. dbPedia obviously does have context but not sure where it would be in Wikidata.
We could keep the context in DBpedia and with proper inter-linking do many interesting stuff.
As we discussed yesterday, we could use DBpedia Live and check for updated/stalled/missing values. For example, if the previous values were the same in DBpedia/Wikipedia & Wikidata and e.g. Wikipedia changes a value we could trigger an update alert, or if a new value such as deathDate in introduced that does not exist in Wikidata. DBpedia would use dbo:deathDate, but using the link to P570 we could allow an agent to do the check
-- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@wikimedia.org
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
If you want to list the properties called by a template then you need a property which links to other properties - ie it has a property datatype. Property datatype is not available yet but is coming soon.
You can then use the labels for this property in various languages to label the corresponding template parameters
It seems to me that it would be better to store this info in the template itself - use lua to specify the property for each parameter and also to specify that the parameter label should be the label of the corresponding property in the language of that wiki.
Maybe we should store these internationalised templates here on wikidata? On 4 Mar 2015 09:35, "Dimitris Kontokostas" jimkont@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Stas Malyshev smalyshev@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi!
architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
"Name" would be a bit tricky since I'm not sure if we have property called "name" but for something like date of birth wouldn't it be useful to link it in the template to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P569 somehow? Is there such possibility?
In DBpedia we have our own properties and the mappings should use these instead. Some exceptions exist for very popular vocabularies such as foaf:name but I am not sure if we should allow direct mappings to a wikidata property if an equivalent DBpedia property exists. In this case it's http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:BirthDate We already have some mappings in place but more are needed for complete coverage
http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=wiki...
With identifying properties, however - such as name - I'm not sure if this could be used.
I agree that general properties such as name are difficult to interpret
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
Well, in dbpedia it says name is foaf:name, but this could only be appropriate for humans (and maybe only in specific contexts), for other entities "name" may have completely different semantics. In Wikidata, however, properties are generic, so I wonder if it would be possible to keep context. dbPedia obviously does have context but not sure where it would be in Wikidata.
We could keep the context in DBpedia and with proper inter-linking do many interesting stuff.
As we discussed yesterday, we could use DBpedia Live and check for updated/stalled/missing values. For example, if the previous values were the same in DBpedia/Wikipedia & Wikidata and e.g. Wikipedia changes a value we could trigger an update alert, or if a new value such as deathDate in introduced that does not exist in Wikidata. DBpedia would use dbo:deathDate, but using the link to P570 we could allow an agent to do the check
-- Stas Malyshev smalyshev@wikimedia.org
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
-- Kontokostas Dimitris
Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Maybe we should store these internationalised templates here on wikidata?
That's precisely what my opening post is about :)
I need help from people who understand Wikidata (and possible dbpedia) better than I do to figure out the details of getting it done.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-04 12:21 GMT+02:00 Joe Filceolaire filceolaire@gmail.com:
If you want to list the properties called by a template then you need a property which links to other properties - ie it has a property datatype. Property datatype is not available yet but is coming soon.
You can then use the labels for this property in various languages to label the corresponding template parameters
It seems to me that it would be better to store this info in the template itself - use lua to specify the property for each parameter and also to specify that the parameter label should be the label of the corresponding property in the language of that wiki.
Maybe we should store these internationalised templates here on wikidata? On 4 Mar 2015 09:35, "Dimitris Kontokostas" jimkont@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Stas Malyshev smalyshev@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi!
architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
"Name" would be a bit tricky since I'm not sure if we have property called "name" but for something like date of birth wouldn't it be useful to link it in the template to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P569 somehow? Is there such possibility?
In DBpedia we have our own properties and the mappings should use these instead. Some exceptions exist for very popular vocabularies such as foaf:name but I am not sure if we should allow direct mappings to a wikidata property if an equivalent DBpedia property exists. In this case it's http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:BirthDate We already have some mappings in place but more are needed for complete coverage
http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=wiki...
With identifying properties, however - such as name - I'm not sure if this could be used.
I agree that general properties such as name are difficult to interpret
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
Well, in dbpedia it says name is foaf:name, but this could only be appropriate for humans (and maybe only in specific contexts), for other entities "name" may have completely different semantics. In Wikidata, however, properties are generic, so I wonder if it would be possible to keep context. dbPedia obviously does have context but not sure where it would be in Wikidata.
We could keep the context in DBpedia and with proper inter-linking do many interesting stuff.
As we discussed yesterday, we could use DBpedia Live and check for updated/stalled/missing values. For example, if the previous values were the same in DBpedia/Wikipedia & Wikidata and e.g. Wikipedia changes a value we could trigger an update alert, or if a new value such as deathDate in introduced that does not exist in Wikidata. DBpedia would use dbo:deathDate, but using the link to P570 we could allow an agent to do the check
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On 4 March 2015 at 10:26, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
Maybe we should store these internationalised templates here on wikidata?
I need help from people who understand Wikidata (and possible dbpedia) better than I do to figure out the details of getting it done.
I should be able to help with that. I think we need to break the problem down into small chunks, and start with a simple case - such as your mention of {{Infobox architect}}.
On Wikidata, that's:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q10973090
On the English Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_architect
it has parameters such as:
| name = | image = | birth_date = | alma_mater = | spouse = | awards =
Those may be said to have Wikidata equivalences:
| name = [label] | image = P18 | birth_date = P569 | alma_mater = P69 | spouse = P26 | awards = P166
Before we do anything with mapping to DBpedia, we need a way to say that, in Wikidata:
Q10973090 [has property] P18 qualifiers: in en, fr, nl Wikipedias
Q10973090 [has property] P569 qualifiers: in en, de, nl Wikipedias
and so on (qualifiers are hypothetical).
I've made such a proposal there:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Unsorted#Infobox_pr...
Please feel free to comment at that page.
On 5 March 2015 at 18:22, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
I've made such a proposal there:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Unsorted#Infobox_propertyPlease feel free to comment at that page.
More comments there would be useful.
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Joe Filceolaire filceolaire@gmail.com wrote:
If you want to list the properties called by a template then you need a property which links to other properties - ie it has a property datatype. Property datatype is not available yet but is coming soon.
This datatype is available for a while already.
Cheers Lydia
Il 03/03/2015 21:40, Amir E. Aharoni ha scritto:
Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all together.
The context that interests me the most is translating an article in ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch?
Currently, in theory, it would:
- Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the
interlanguage link: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect 3. Find that name is foaf:name 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect 5. Find that foaf:name is naam
... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter.
Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking about performance.)
That's what Translatemplate https://tools.wmflabs.org/translatemplate/ is for! (thanks to you and Daniel for the idea :-) It uses mwparserfromhell to parse DBpedia mappings and 'translate' templates in-place. I've added you to the service group so you can fiddle with it. The code got a bit hackish to work around a mwparserfromhell/Labs bug. If you're happy with the result we can publish it in Gerrit.
Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia.
[1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de mailto:daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de>:
Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni: > Trying again... It's a really important topic for me. > > How do I go about proposing storing information about templates parameters > mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it sounds > like something that could be implemented using the current properties, but > thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome. Hi Amir! We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic! The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4]. I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, but I don't know where offhand. Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the opposite direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the country property. let me know if this helps :) -- daniel [1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17 -- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
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Am 04.03.2015 um 18:00 schrieb Ricordisamoa:
That's what Translatemplate https://tools.wmflabs.org/translatemplate/ is for! (thanks to you and Daniel for the idea :-) It uses mwparserfromhell to parse DBpedia mappings and 'translate' templates in-place. I've added you to the service group so you can fiddle with it. The code got a bit hackish to work around a mwparserfromhell/Labs bug. If you're happy with the result we can publish it in Gerrit.
Aren't the dbpedia template parameter mappings available in machine readable form somewhere? I mean, dbpedia is *using* them for extracting information somehow, right?
Dimitris, can you enlighten us?
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de wrote:
Am 04.03.2015 um 18:00 schrieb Ricordisamoa:
That's what Translatemplate https://tools.wmflabs.org/translatemplate/
is for!
(thanks to you and Daniel for the idea :-) It uses mwparserfromhell to parse DBpedia mappings and 'translate'
templates
in-place. I've added you to the service group so you can fiddle with it. The code got a bit hackish to work around a mwparserfromhell/Labs bug.
If you're
happy with the result we can publish it in Gerrit.
Aren't the dbpedia template parameter mappings available in machine readable form somewhere? I mean, dbpedia is *using* them for extracting information somehow, right?
Dimitris, can you enlighten us?
The framework has it's own MW parser and the design choice when the wiki was implemented (very long time ago & before I got involved) was to use wiki markup as the native syntax. To be honest it makes sense. This what the users use to define mappings, we can easily parse it and there is no need for another intermediate format However we are working on an RDF representation of the mappings that people will be able to get from our mapping server api. But this will be like an export functionality, the native syntax will still be the wiki markup.
-- Daniel Kinzler Senior Software Developer
Wikimedia Deutschland Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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Il 04/03/2015 18:00, Ricordisamoa ha scritto:
That's what Translatemplate https://tools.wmflabs.org/translatemplate/ is for! (thanks to you and Daniel for the idea :-) It uses mwparserfromhell to parse DBpedia mappings and 'translate' templates in-place. I've added you to the service group so you can fiddle with it. The code got a bit hackish to work around a mwparserfromhell/Labs bug. If you're happy with the result we can publish it in Gerrit.
And the new version is live! You can test it right now in your browser. While it is not meant for production yet, I am very happy with the result. Amir, if you can come up with a better name I'll go straight to the Gerrit repository requests :-)
On 3 March 2015 at 18:39, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de wrote:
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some extent. Let's say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the DBPedia mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you can see that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the dbpedia ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link P17[4].
Sounds good. We also have a problem on en.Wikipedia (and presumably elsewhere) of inconsistency in template parameter naming ("latitude", "lat" and "latd" all mean the same thing, for example). Some templates even have to support multiple versions, for backwards compatibility.
If as part of this exercise we could resolve that, it would be a bonus. Though I expect some resistance form those allergic to change...
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 3 March 2015 at 18:39, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinzler@wikimedia.de wrote:
The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some
extent. Let's
say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the
DBPedia
mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you
can see
that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the
dbpedia
ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link
P17[4].
Sounds good. We also have a problem on en.Wikipedia (and presumably elsewhere) of inconsistency in template parameter naming ("latitude", "lat" and "latd" all mean the same thing, for example). Some templates even have to support multiple versions, for backwards compatibility.
If as part of this exercise we could resolve that, it would be a bonus. Though I expect some resistance form those allergic to change...
If it helps, DBpedia can provide counts of property names per template. we already use that to generate some mapping stats e.g. http://mappings.dbpedia.org/server/statistics/en/
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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On 24 September 2014 at 12:18, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
TL;DR: Did anybody consider using Wikidata items of Wikipedia templates to store multilingual template parameters mapping?
If this lets us get rid of the awful TemplateData implementation, which duplicates but does not integrate with pre-existing prose template documentation, I'm all for it.