Trying again... It's a really important topic for me. How do I go about proposing storing information about templates parameters mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and it sounds like something that could be implemented using the current properties, but thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2014-09-24 14:18 GMT+03:00 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>il>:

Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all together. The context that interests me the most is translating an article in ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is "naam" in Dutch? Currently, in theory, it would: 1. Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the interlanguage link: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect 3. Find that name is foaf:name 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect 5. Find that foaf:name is naam ... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter. Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking about performance.) Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it is OK to use dbpedia. [1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler <daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de>de>:

service that can work. I can suggest a DBpedia gsoc project for this if some people are willing to mentor a student [2]. I know very little about dbpedia, but if it helps, I'm willing to support it from the Wikipedia / ContentTranslation side. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2015-03-04 10:08 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Kontokostas &lt;jimkont(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: > Hi all, > > What you can get from DBpedia is > 1) template structure (all properties defined in a template) > I am not sure why this was not included in the 2014 release but you can > see an example in 3.9 [1] > Our parser cannot handle very complex templates but it is a good start. > I'll make sure these are included in the next release but it is also easy > to create a service that extracts them on request > > 2) mappings wiki > We are in the process of exporting our mappings in RDF using the [R2]RML > vocabulary. We have code that does that for simple mappings but it's not > ready to get merged yet. > Hopefully we'll have this soon and will be quite easy to query and join. > Even without that, we could get a partial functionality by translating & > matching properties from #1 > > 3) mappings wiki (ontology) > links from ontology classes/properties to wikidata, at the moment they are > stored in our wiki but could be stored in Wikidata instead as Daniel > suggested. > > service that can work. I can suggest a DBpedia gsoc project for this if > some people are willing to mentor a student [2]. > > What we would need from the Wikidata/DBpedia community is > 1) more ontology links from DBpedia to Wikidata > 2) contributions in the infobox mappings to cover more infoboxes for > better coverage > > Best, > Dimitris > > > [1] http://downloads.dbpedia.org/3.9/en/template_parameters_en.ttl.bz2 > [2] dbpedia.org/gsoc2015/ideas > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < > amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; wrote: > >> Thanks, that's a step forward. Now the question is how to bring this all >> together. >> >> The context that interests me the most is translating an article in >> ContentTranslation. Let's go with an architect.[1] I am translating an >> article about an architect from English to Dutch, and it has {{Infobox >> architect}} at the top. How would ContentTranslation, a MediaWiki extension >> installed on the Wikimedia cluster, know that the "name" parameter is >> "naam" in Dutch? >> >> Currently, in theory, it would: >> 1. Find that there's a corresponding infobox in Dutch using the >> interlanguage link: >> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjabloon:Infobox_architect >> 2. Go to dbpedia and find the English template: >> http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Infobox_architect >> 3. Find that name is foaf:name >> 4. Go to dbpedia and find the Dutch template: >> http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_nl:Infobox_architect >> 5. Find that foaf:name is naam >> >> ... And then repeat steps 1 to 5 for each parameter. >> >> Is this something that is possible to query now? (I'm not even talking >> about performance.) >> >> Even if it is possible to query it, is it good to be dependent on an >> external website for this? Maybe it makes sense to import the data from >> dbpedia to Wikidata? It's absolutely not a rhetorical question - maybe it >> is OK to use dbpedia. >> >> [1] {{Infobox cricketer}} exists in the Dutch Wikipedia, but doesn' >> appear in the Dutch mappings in dbpedia. >> >> >> -- >> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >> ‪“We're living in pieces, >> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ >> >> 2015-03-03 20:39 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de&gt;de>: >> >>> Am 03.03.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Amir E. Aharoni: >>> > Trying again... It's a really important topic for me. >>> > >>> > How do I go about proposing storing information about templates >>> parameters >>> > mapping to the community? I kinda understand how Wikidata works, and >>> it sounds >>> > like something that could be implemented using the current properties, >>> but >>> > thoughts about moving this forward would be very welcome. >>> >>> Hi Amir! >>> >>> We had a call today with the dbPedia folks, about exactly this topic! >>> >>> The dbPedia mapping wiki[1] has this information, at least to some >>> extent. Let's >>> say you are looking at {{Cricketer Infobox}} on en. You can look out the >>> DBPedia >>> mappings for the template parameters on their mapping page[2]. There you >>> can see >>> that the "country" parameter maps to the "country" proeprty in the >>> dbpedia >>> ontology[2], which in turn uses owl:equivalentProperty to cross-link >>> P17[4]. >>> >>> I assume this info is also available in machine readable form somewhere, >>> but I >>> don't know where offhand. >>> >>> Today we discussed that this mapping should also be available in the >>> opposite >>> direction: on Wikidata, you can use P1628 ("equivalent property") to >>> cross-reference the dbPedia ontology. I just added this info to the >>> country >>> property. >>> >>> let me know if this helps :) >>> -- daniel >>> >>> [1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/ >>> [2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Mapping_en:Cricketer_Infobox >>> [3] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Country >>> [4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P17 >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel Kinzler >>> Senior Software Developer >>> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland >>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > > > -- > Kontokostas Dimitris > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > >

called "name" At this stage it's not actually important for me for the purposes of ContentTranslation to map it to a Wikidata property. Any mapping between parameter names in different languages would be enough. One possibility is to store this mapping as a property at the Wikidata item page of the template. It would be a complex property, but it's not impossible.

If you want to list the properties called by a template then you need a property which links to other properties - ie it has a property datatype. Property datatype is not available yet but is coming soon. You can then use the labels for this property in various languages to label the corresponding template parameters It seems to me that it would be better to store this info in the template itself - use lua to specify the property for each parameter and also to specify that the parameter label should be the label of the corresponding property in the language of that wiki. Maybe we should store these internationalised templates here on wikidata? On 4 Mar 2015 09:35, "Dimitris Kontokostas" &lt;jimkont(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Joe Filceolaire &lt;filceolaire(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: This datatype is available for a while already. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

On 3 March 2015 at 18:39, Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de&gt; wrote: Sounds good. We also have a problem on en.Wikipedia (and presumably elsewhere) of inconsistency in template parameter naming ("latitude", "lat" and "latd" all mean the same thing, for example). Some templates even have to support multiple versions, for backwards compatibility. If as part of this exercise we could resolve that, it would be a bonus. Though I expect some resistance form those allergic to change... -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Il 03/03/2015 21:40, Amir E. Aharoni ha scritto: That's what Translatemplate <https://tools.wmflabs.org/translatemplate/> is for! (thanks to you and Daniel for the idea :-) It uses mwparserfromhell to parse DBpedia mappings and 'translate' templates in-place. I've added you to the service group so you can fiddle with it. The code got a bit hackish to work around a mwparserfromhell/Labs bug. If you're happy with the result we can publish it in Gerrit.

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Kinzler &lt;daniel.kinzler(a)wikimedia.de&gt; wrote: The framework has it's own MW parser and the design choice when the wiki was implemented (very long time ago & before I got involved) was to use wiki markup as the native syntax. To be honest it makes sense. This what the users use to define mappings, we can easily parse it and there is no need for another intermediate format However we are working on an RDF representation of the mappings that people will be able to get from our mapping server api. But this will be like an export functionality, the native syntax will still be the wiki markup. -- Kontokostas Dimitris

Il 04/03/2015 18:00, Ricordisamoa ha scritto: And the new version is live! You can test it right now in your browser. While it is not meant for production yet, I am very happy with the result. Amir, if you can come up with a better name I'll go straight to the Gerrit repository requests :-)