A great update from Peter Gallert in Namibia on his efforts to bring Wikipedia to teachers:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/11/namibia-education-update/
What an exciting read!* "**Imagine, only one of the teachers had ever heard of Wikipedia before—and was, of course, not aware that he might help to write it." *That sentence really depicts different challenges for our various educational efforts around the world. Thank you Peter for sharing this!
/ sophie
2013/7/11 LiAnna Davis ldavis@wikimedia.org
A great update from Peter Gallert in Namibia on his efforts to bring Wikipedia to teachers:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/11/namibia-education-update/
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Wow, great :)
Would be interesting to see a similar project somewhere in rural Europe or the US,
Balázs
*Balazs Viczian* Executive Vice President *Wikimédia Magyarország Egyesület*
Tel: +36 70 633 6372 Mail: balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu Web: www.wikimedia.hu Blog: Magyar Wikipédia Magazinhttp://huwiki.blogspot.hu Facebook: Magyar Wikipédia https://www.facebook.com/hu.wikipedia
2013/7/11 LiAnna Davis ldavis@wikimedia.org
A great update from Peter Gallert in Namibia on his efforts to bring Wikipedia to teachers:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/11/namibia-education-update/
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
2013/7/11 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu:
Would be interesting to see a similar project somewhere in rural Europe or the US,
Interesting idea. You made me curious and made me look for some data on rural schools in US. According to this 2010 data[1] it seems we don't even need to go to rural areas. As an example, look at California, where we have more 5 to 17 years old in families living in poverty in town than in rural areas.
As a cultural curiosity, I wonder what would be the results of a survey for professor with questions about Wikipedia in schools of poor districts of USA.
[1] http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ruraled/tables/a.1.a.-6_2010.asp
This reminds me my high school in a public school of São Paulo (1996-1998), where we had a good computer lab to train AutoCAD software, but it was never used, since teachers didn't know how to use these new computers. Same thing with my brother, who became a Linux geek at the age of 15, but the school director kept the computer lab doors closed and he could not spend his time with something he loved. Quite the opposite, teachers were sometimes wrong things to him or underestimating his intelligence.
I gave these two examples of public school in the richest town of South America to tell about teachers who simply didn't know how to use some tools everybody had access to.
P. S. AutoCAD for the level of things I needed that time is easier than editing Wikipedia.
Tom
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Aha.
I feel that people are either targeting African jungles/other extremely remote places or to the locally famous/large universities/colleges and barely anything is targeted in between them.
I'm not telling you that there is nothing at all (there are a few examples of such educational programs), simply I just wish to raise the awarness that there are many other educational facilities in between Epukiro Post 3 Junior Secondary School in rural Namibia and the Smithonian in Washington D.C.
Balázs
2013/7/13 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvarenga@okfn.org
2013/7/11 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu:
Would be interesting to see a similar project somewhere in rural Europe
or
the US,
Interesting idea. You made me curious and made me look for some data on rural schools in US. According to this 2010 data[1] it seems we don't even need to go to rural areas. As an example, look at California, where we have more 5 to 17 years old in families living in poverty in town than in rural areas.
As a cultural curiosity, I wonder what would be the results of a survey for professor with questions about Wikipedia in schools of poor districts of USA.
[1] http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ruraled/tables/a.1.a.-6_2010.asp
This reminds me my high school in a public school of São Paulo (1996-1998), where we had a good computer lab to train AutoCAD software, but it was never used, since teachers didn't know how to use these new computers. Same thing with my brother, who became a Linux geek at the age of 15, but the school director kept the computer lab doors closed and he could not spend his time with something he loved. Quite the opposite, teachers were sometimes wrong things to him or underestimating his intelligence.
I gave these two examples of public school in the richest town of South America to tell about teachers who simply didn't know how to use some tools everybody had access to.
P. S. AutoCAD for the level of things I needed that time is easier than editing Wikipedia.
Tom
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Balázs, are there any specific ones you have in mind? Those in between which are 'missed'.
/ sophie
2013/7/13 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu
Aha.
I feel that people are either targeting African jungles/other extremely remote places or to the locally famous/large universities/colleges and barely anything is targeted in between them.
I'm not telling you that there is nothing at all (there are a few examples of such educational programs), simply I just wish to raise the awarness that there are many other educational facilities in between Epukiro Post 3 Junior Secondary School in rural Namibia and the Smithonian in Washington D.C.
Balázs
2013/7/13 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvarenga@okfn.org
2013/7/11 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu:
Would be interesting to see a similar project somewhere in rural Europe
or
the US,
Interesting idea. You made me curious and made me look for some data on rural schools in US. According to this 2010 data[1] it seems we don't even need to go to rural areas. As an example, look at California, where we have more 5 to 17 years old in families living in poverty in town than in rural areas.
As a cultural curiosity, I wonder what would be the results of a survey for professor with questions about Wikipedia in schools of poor districts of USA.
[1] http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ruraled/tables/a.1.a.-6_2010.asp
This reminds me my high school in a public school of São Paulo (1996-1998), where we had a good computer lab to train AutoCAD software, but it was never used, since teachers didn't know how to use these new computers. Same thing with my brother, who became a Linux geek at the age of 15, but the school director kept the computer lab doors closed and he could not spend his time with something he loved. Quite the opposite, teachers were sometimes wrong things to him or underestimating his intelligence.
I gave these two examples of public school in the richest town of South America to tell about teachers who simply didn't know how to use some tools everybody had access to.
P. S. AutoCAD for the level of things I needed that time is easier than editing Wikipedia.
Tom
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Balázs, with all due respect to both Epukiro and the Smithsonian, the initiatives that lie somewhere in-between the charm of rural settings and the clout of established institutions don't grab attention as easily. Check out blog posts tagged "global education program" at the WMF Global Blog and you'll see them (unfortunately two of us - at least that I know of - were not awarded scholarships for Wikimania to share our work and interact with other Wikimedians and educators)
Mina ----- Original Message ----- From: Sophie Österberg To: Wikimedia Education Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] blog post from Namibia
Balázs, are there any specific ones you have in mind? Those in between which are 'missed'.
/ sophie
2013/7/13 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu
Aha.
I feel that people are either targeting African jungles/other extremely remote places or to the locally famous/large universities/colleges and barely anything is targeted in between them.
I'm not telling you that there is nothing at all (there are a few examples of such educational programs), simply I just wish to raise the awarness that there are many other educational facilities in between Epukiro Post 3 Junior Secondary School in rural Namibia and the Smithonian in Washington D.C.
Balázs
2013/7/13 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvarenga@okfn.org
2013/7/11 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu:
> Would be interesting to see a similar project somewhere in rural Europe or > the US,
Interesting idea. You made me curious and made me look for some data on rural schools in US. According to this 2010 data[1] it seems we don't even need to go to rural areas. As an example, look at California, where we have more 5 to 17 years old in families living in poverty in town than in rural areas.
As a cultural curiosity, I wonder what would be the results of a survey for professor with questions about Wikipedia in schools of poor districts of USA.
[1] http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ruraled/tables/a.1.a.-6_2010.asp
This reminds me my high school in a public school of São Paulo (1996-1998), where we had a good computer lab to train AutoCAD software, but it was never used, since teachers didn't know how to use these new computers. Same thing with my brother, who became a Linux geek at the age of 15, but the school director kept the computer lab doors closed and he could not spend his time with something he loved. Quite the opposite, teachers were sometimes wrong things to him or underestimating his intelligence.
I gave these two examples of public school in the richest town of South America to tell about teachers who simply didn't know how to use some tools everybody had access to.
P. S. AutoCAD for the level of things I needed that time is easier than editing Wikipedia.
Tom
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
--
Be Bold! Sophie Österberg 0733-832670 sophie.osterberg@wikimedia.se
Every single contribution to Wikipedia is a gift of free knowledge to humanity.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hi Balázs and Mina,
I think there is no straight line in between the school levels because there are too many factors here. For instance, you can have a great enthusiastic professor, who understand Wikipedia, teaching a classroom with a very bad average level of students, whose contributions to Wikipedia won't be that great (and in Brazil, according to some professors I've talked since I joined the university, there can be a considerable level of fluctuation on the level of the students for each school term). Or you can have a professor that doesn't interfere or get involved with activities on Wikipedia, but we have good contributions of good students. Both cases happened here. There are several other possibilities if we think of the variables involved in such system, like infra-structure, students maturity, Wikipedia community reception (for instance, the Portuguese Wikipedia is much less welcoming than the Arabic one, and even the English), cultural background, experienced Wikipedians support etc..
When I started to plan (although without time) the education program in Brazil, I have consciously chosen the top universitieshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brazil_Program/Education_program/Background (usually public). Firstly, that would increase the probability of having a good average level of the students, which for me it is an important condition to have motivated students and good contributions. That could also help with media: if I have some of the trendy universities, that makes life easier to get news and get professors from other universities that aspire the top ones to do the same. I think the media attention can also happen when you show very poor regions and create a case around it, mainly if it is successful.
From an open call we made here for the education program, there appeared
some professors of lower level universities (although the focus were top ones), and I could check, after visiting some classes and seeing the results, that students had more difficulty to create original content - so they had to translate and adapt, which is easier. In some cases students can even find difficult to write proper Portuguese, as several friends of mine, today professors, have told me and I've seen with my eyes when some students from low level universities call me to teach basics math (that they should learn at school, for instance).
I've heard from WMF colleagues sometimes at American universities that doesn't rank among the top ones had sometimes really good contributions, more than some top ones, and that is not that difficult to explain when we think about students motivation to be in a classroom and what is the motivation to edit Wikipedia or simply share knowledge.
If you want sell a program and that you are a charity organization, using somethings I mentioned can help, like fancy photos and a good communication work. (Just think why the most watched movies in the world are watched. :) Even so, if you think on the challenges to make things happen in some places (like Namibia, Brazil and I guess your countries), we have really to register and learn the most we can from it. And we can use these cases even for the global north, you can good to poor regions of US and Europe and say: look, even people from Namibia and Brazil are using Wikipedia, shouldn't you use as well?
Tom
2013/7/13 Mina Theofilatou theoth@otenet.gr
Balázs, with all due respect to both Epukiro and the Smithsonian, the
initiatives that lie somewhere in-between the charm of rural settings and the clout of established institutions don't grab attention as easily. Check out blog posts tagged "global education program" at the WMF Global Blog and you'll see them (unfortunately two of us - at least that I know of - were not awarded scholarships for Wikimania to share our work and interact with other Wikimedians and educators)
Mina
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Right, I totally agree with you.
Simply, I think similar programs could work in other countries in between poor countries like Namibia and rich countries, like Brazil. My aim was simply to broaden the focus a bit for those who read this thread; maybe one of them already has a program in their mind about this. No criticism or anything like that was intended :)
Balázs
2013/7/13 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvarenga@okfn.org
Hi Balázs and Mina,
I think there is no straight line in between the school levels because there are too many factors here. For instance, you can have a great enthusiastic professor, who understand Wikipedia, teaching a classroom with a very bad average level of students, whose contributions to Wikipedia won't be that great (and in Brazil, according to some professors I've talked since I joined the university, there can be a considerable level of fluctuation on the level of the students for each school term). Or you can have a professor that doesn't interfere or get involved with activities on Wikipedia, but we have good contributions of good students. Both cases happened here. There are several other possibilities if we think of the variables involved in such system, like infra-structure, students maturity, Wikipedia community reception (for instance, the Portuguese Wikipedia is much less welcoming than the Arabic one, and even the English), cultural background, experienced Wikipedians support etc..
When I started to plan (although without time) the education program in Brazil, I have consciously chosen the top universitieshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brazil_Program/Education_program/Background (usually public). Firstly, that would increase the probability of having a good average level of the students, which for me it is an important condition to have motivated students and good contributions. That could also help with media: if I have some of the trendy universities, that makes life easier to get news and get professors from other universities that aspire the top ones to do the same. I think the media attention can also happen when you show very poor regions and create a case around it, mainly if it is successful.
From an open call we made here for the education program, there appeared some professors of lower level universities (although the focus were top ones), and I could check, after visiting some classes and seeing the results, that students had more difficulty to create original content - so they had to translate and adapt, which is easier. In some cases students can even find difficult to write proper Portuguese, as several friends of mine, today professors, have told me and I've seen with my eyes when some students from low level universities call me to teach basics math (that they should learn at school, for instance).
I've heard from WMF colleagues sometimes at American universities that doesn't rank among the top ones had sometimes really good contributions, more than some top ones, and that is not that difficult to explain when we think about students motivation to be in a classroom and what is the motivation to edit Wikipedia or simply share knowledge.
If you want sell a program and that you are a charity organization, using somethings I mentioned can help, like fancy photos and a good communication work. (Just think why the most watched movies in the world are watched. :) Even so, if you think on the challenges to make things happen in some places (like Namibia, Brazil and I guess your countries), we have really to register and learn the most we can from it. And we can use these cases even for the global north, you can good to poor regions of US and Europe and say: look, even people from Namibia and Brazil are using Wikipedia, shouldn't you use as well?
Tom
2013/7/13 Mina Theofilatou theoth@otenet.gr
Balázs, with all due respect to both Epukiro and the Smithsonian, the
initiatives that lie somewhere in-between the charm of rural settings and the clout of established institutions don't grab attention as easily. Check out blog posts tagged "global education program" at the WMF Global Blog and you'll see them (unfortunately two of us - at least that I know of - were not awarded scholarships for Wikimania to share our work and interact with other Wikimedians and educators)
Mina
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I'm reading this with much interest and agree with several points you're making Tom. There are various aspects to take into consideration. In Sweden we've been thinking about targeting lower level universities as to have them feel they're unique and doing something which the top-tier universities don't do, as to have them market their 'unique selling point' and a possibility to stand apart from the highly ranked universities. But then you write about issues regarding students levels of education and motivation and that varies a lot from country to country and also, universities and individuals of course.
Balázs, could you specify a bit what you had in mind? I think I understand your thought but it would be great with one, or a few, examples.
/ sophie
2013/7/14 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu
Right, I totally agree with you.
Simply, I think similar programs could work in other countries in between poor countries like Namibia and rich countries, like Brazil. My aim was simply to broaden the focus a bit for those who read this thread; maybe one of them already has a program in their mind about this. No criticism or anything like that was intended :)
Balázs
2013/7/13 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton.alvarenga@okfn.org
Hi Balázs and Mina,
I think there is no straight line in between the school levels because there are too many factors here. For instance, you can have a great enthusiastic professor, who understand Wikipedia, teaching a classroom with a very bad average level of students, whose contributions to Wikipedia won't be that great (and in Brazil, according to some professors I've talked since I joined the university, there can be a considerable level of fluctuation on the level of the students for each school term). Or you can have a professor that doesn't interfere or get involved with activities on Wikipedia, but we have good contributions of good students. Both cases happened here. There are several other possibilities if we think of the variables involved in such system, like infra-structure, students maturity, Wikipedia community reception (for instance, the Portuguese Wikipedia is much less welcoming than the Arabic one, and even the English), cultural background, experienced Wikipedians support etc..
When I started to plan (although without time) the education program in Brazil, I have consciously chosen the top universitieshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brazil_Program/Education_program/Background (usually public). Firstly, that would increase the probability of having a good average level of the students, which for me it is an important condition to have motivated students and good contributions. That could also help with media: if I have some of the trendy universities, that makes life easier to get news and get professors from other universities that aspire the top ones to do the same. I think the media attention can also happen when you show very poor regions and create a case around it, mainly if it is successful.
From an open call we made here for the education program, there appeared some professors of lower level universities (although the focus were top ones), and I could check, after visiting some classes and seeing the results, that students had more difficulty to create original content - so they had to translate and adapt, which is easier. In some cases students can even find difficult to write proper Portuguese, as several friends of mine, today professors, have told me and I've seen with my eyes when some students from low level universities call me to teach basics math (that they should learn at school, for instance).
I've heard from WMF colleagues sometimes at American universities that doesn't rank among the top ones had sometimes really good contributions, more than some top ones, and that is not that difficult to explain when we think about students motivation to be in a classroom and what is the motivation to edit Wikipedia or simply share knowledge.
If you want sell a program and that you are a charity organization, using somethings I mentioned can help, like fancy photos and a good communication work. (Just think why the most watched movies in the world are watched. :) Even so, if you think on the challenges to make things happen in some places (like Namibia, Brazil and I guess your countries), we have really to register and learn the most we can from it. And we can use these cases even for the global north, you can good to poor regions of US and Europe and say: look, even people from Namibia and Brazil are using Wikipedia, shouldn't you use as well?
Tom
2013/7/13 Mina Theofilatou theoth@otenet.gr
Balázs, with all due respect to both Epukiro and the Smithsonian, the
initiatives that lie somewhere in-between the charm of rural settings and the clout of established institutions don't grab attention as easily. Check out blog posts tagged "global education program" at the WMF Global Blog and you'll see them (unfortunately two of us - at least that I know of - were not awarded scholarships for Wikimania to share our work and interact with other Wikimedians and educators)
Mina
-- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) OKF Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre http://br.okfn.org
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I do not wish to go into more details than what I said :)
I totally understand all the risk elimination processes you use (pre-evaluation, targeted selection, etc.) and I have no criticism towards that.
You (Sophie, Tom) both have a seemingly well working educational programme(s) (or at least seems so) reaching out to multiple educational facilities in your countries. Think about reaching out to "lower levels" (none of the Wikipedias are edited by "quality people only" as of now or ever).
(Btw I would be really interested in the "keeping ratio" - how many students became regular editors from the masses you've reached - 1/8? 2/37? 1/100? 3/2637?)
Balázs
Oki doki!
Definitely such is the case, that Wikipedia is not edited by 'quality people only.' just as you say. Which is important to keep in mind.
So, we've had other aims in Sweden than to have regular editors. We've looked at their understanding and acceptance of Wikipedia as a tool in education, and I know other programmes have looked at the quality of the content that students add rather than if they write again. So for Sweden I don't know, since that is not what we've looked at.
/ sophie
2013/7/15 Balázs Viczián balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu
I do not wish to go into more details than what I said :)
I totally understand all the risk elimination processes you use (pre-evaluation, targeted selection, etc.) and I have no criticism towards that.
You (Sophie, Tom) both have a seemingly well working educational programme(s) (or at least seems so) reaching out to multiple educational facilities in your countries. Think about reaching out to "lower levels" (none of the Wikipedias are edited by "quality people only" as of now or ever).
(Btw I would be really interested in the "keeping ratio" - how many students became regular editors from the masses you've reached - 1/8? 2/37? 1/100? 3/2637?)
Balázs
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Balazs, that was exactly what I had in mind: I'm interested in the "retention" rates. My experience in secondary education has returned practically zero "keepers": I will run a project or two each school year, the students will produce material under my - at times discreet, at times strict - guidance, and that's it: none of them gets hooked on the Wikipedia ideals - creating and sharing knowledge - to go on and become a regular editor. So I have to "start from scratch" each semester.
Perhaps the "competitive advantage" of the two extremes is the fact that Namibia and e.g. Massachusetts are both dedicated to learning for completely different reasons: I often use images of young learners in Africa as an example for my own pupils when they are indifferent to learning. Their eagerness to learn under the most adverse of conditions is inspiring and worth all the praise in the world. On the other hand, towns that are world-famous for their educational institutions have all the culture, manpower and infrastructure to cultivate new learning approaches such as Wikipedia. So I would imagine that these two extremes produce the most dedicated Wikipedia editors from an educational background. Those in-between need more motivation, more "open education culture" to be "injected" into their mentalities. Believe me it's not easy in Europe, and unfortunately the European Union is not helping... (speaking from the standpoint of a European citizen, in the European Year of Citizens 2013. Empowering the #1 volunteer-driven, open education platform in the world which is Wikimedia does not seem to be on their agenda, and unfortunately I am led to believe that it's because there's no profit in it).
Mina
----- Original Message ----- From: Balázs Viczián To: Wikimedia Education Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] blog post from Namibia
I do not wish to go into more details than what I said :)
I totally understand all the risk elimination processes you use (pre-evaluation, targeted selection, etc.) and I have no criticism towards that.
You (Sophie, Tom) both have a seemingly well working educational programme(s) (or at least seems so) reaching out to multiple educational facilities in your countries. Think about reaching out to "lower levels" (none of the Wikipedias are edited by "quality people only" as of now or ever).
(Btw I would be really interested in the "keeping ratio" - how many students became regular editors from the masses you've reached - 1/8? 2/37? 1/100? 3/2637?)
Balázs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education