On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre for Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of pieces of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory.
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires " two primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups It also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have some advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone numbers to this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing list cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre for Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of pieces of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory. --
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I suggest that the organizers are accustomed to collecting registration information for educational events involving minors, where collection of personally identifying information of volunteers is in some cases mandatory. For example, one of the educational events I helped start and still volunteer for -- http://hackthefuture.org -- we have "encouraged but not mandatory" LiveScan background checks (usually asked of volunteers who don't know any existing mentors to vouch for them) and tuberculosis skin tests. Wikimedian events have involved very serious transgressions by sexual predators in the past, some of whom relied on anonymity.
Perhaps the organizers can run a second round of enrollment for volunteers who want to maintain their anonymity more than they want to be considered for invitation to events involving minors?
Best regards, Jim
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 8:57 AM Avery Jensen averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires " two primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups It also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have some advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone numbers to this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing list cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre for Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of pieces of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory. --
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hello all,
There seems to be some misunderstanding -- * We are recognized by AffCom. The details we requested are for a future option we might want to persue, of refistering as a charity *outside* the Wikimedia movement. * Details are not posted to this mailing list, but rather to a closed and private google form, which is only availabe to 2 people: the membership admin (Filip) and the chair (me). * Some details were asked so if we decide to apply to become a charity, we will already have the details; while other details are meant to help us connect the right people to the right people, when newcomers approach us. * There is precedent for asking such details with both chapters & the WikiProject Medicine User Group, which is similar in acrivity to our UG. * That said, as this is concerning people, the board will reconsider changing the form. The idea is to make it easy to participate, not difficult. If we end up deciding to register as a charity outside the WM Movement, we'll ask for more details.
So stay tuned. Filip will send a new version of the form in the coming week.
Best, Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:57 Avery Jensen, averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires " two primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups It also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have some advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone numbers to this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing list cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre for Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of pieces of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory. --
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
When you resend the revised form, can you delete all of the existing data submitted under the previous version to ensure that unneeded information won't be stored?
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com Date: 2018-11-12 1:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Education ML education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] join user group without google
Hello all,
There seems to be some misunderstanding -- * We are recognized by AffCom. The details we requested are for a future option we might want to persue, of refistering as a charity *outside* the Wikimedia movement. * Details are not posted to this mailing list, but rather to a closed and private google form, which is only availabe to 2 people: the membership admin (Filip) and the chair (me). * Some details were asked so if we decide to apply to become a charity, we will already have the details; while other details are meant to help us connect the right people to the right people, when newcomers approach us. * There is precedent for asking such details with both chapters & the WikiProject Medicine User Group, which is similar in acrivity to our UG. * That said, as this is concerning people, the board will reconsider changing the form. The idea is to make it easy to participate, not difficult. If we end up deciding to register as a charity outside the WM Movement, we'll ask for more details.
So stay tuned. Filip will send a new version of the form in the coming week.
Best, Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:57 Avery Jensen, averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires " two primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups It also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have some advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone numbers to this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing list cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre for Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of pieces of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory. --
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Of course.
Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 20:48 Andrew Leung, andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
When you resend the revised form, can you delete all of the existing data submitted under the previous version to ensure that unneeded information won't be stored?
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com Date: 2018-11-12 1:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Education ML education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] join user group without google
Hello all,
There seems to be some misunderstanding --
- We are recognized by AffCom. The details we requested are for a future
option we might want to persue, of refistering as a charity *outside* the Wikimedia movement.
- Details are not posted to this mailing list, but rather to a closed and
private google form, which is only availabe to 2 people: the membership admin (Filip) and the chair (me).
- Some details were asked so if we decide to apply to become a charity, we
will already have the details; while other details are meant to help us connect the right people to the right people, when newcomers approach us.
- There is precedent for asking such details with both chapters & the
WikiProject Medicine User Group, which is similar in acrivity to our UG.
- That said, as this is concerning people, the board will reconsider
changing the form. The idea is to make it easy to participate, not difficult. If we end up deciding to register as a charity outside the WM Movement, we'll ask for more details.
So stay tuned. Filip will send a new version of the form in the coming week.
Best, Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:57 Avery Jensen, averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires "
two
primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups It also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have some advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone numbers
to
this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing list cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory* fields to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre
for
Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of
pieces
of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to NOT make the fields to fill up mandatory. --
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
It looks like this form is linked from the front page of the user group and it is still collecting personal data. Should it be removed? There are probably other people who have gotten talk page notifications and are not on this mailing list. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Group
I see also the names of the people who signed up for the project have all been removed. Maybe this is why I didn't get any board election notifications from this user group. https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Gr...
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:50 PM Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com wrote:
Of course.
Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 20:48 Andrew Leung, andrewcleung@hotmail.com wrote:
When you resend the revised form, can you delete all of the existing data submitted under the previous version to ensure that unneeded information won't be stored?
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com Date: 2018-11-12 1:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Education ML education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] join user group without google
Hello all,
There seems to be some misunderstanding --
- We are recognized by AffCom. The details we requested are for a future
option we might want to persue, of refistering as a charity *outside* the Wikimedia movement.
- Details are not posted to this mailing list, but rather to a closed and
private google form, which is only availabe to 2 people: the membership admin (Filip) and the chair (me).
- Some details were asked so if we decide to apply to become a charity,
we
will already have the details; while other details are meant to help us connect the right people to the right people, when newcomers approach us.
- There is precedent for asking such details with both chapters & the
WikiProject Medicine User Group, which is similar in acrivity to our UG.
- That said, as this is concerning people, the board will reconsider
changing the form. The idea is to make it easy to participate, not difficult. If we end up deciding to register as a charity outside the WM Movement, we'll ask for more details.
So stay tuned. Filip will send a new version of the form in the coming week.
Best, Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:57 Avery Jensen, averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at
all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it has some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application requires "
two
primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups
It
also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have
some
advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone
numbers
to
this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing
list
cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory*
fields
to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the "centre
for
Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that point might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of
pieces
of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to
NOT
make the fields to fill up mandatory.
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr
http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hi Avery,
The form has now been updated. As a mass message was sent, we did not want to remove it, to avoid a scenario in which someone who is interested in sign up cannot find the form.
As for the names of supporters for the UG to be recognized by AffCom -- they have not been "removed"; We're in the process of revamping the UG's page, and the list of initial supporters will be available in an internal page soon.
Best, Shani.
----------------------------------------------- Shani Evenstein Sigalov EdTech Innovation Strategist, NY/American Medical Program, Sackler School of Medicine, Tel Aviv University. PhD Candidate, School of Education, Tel Aviv University. Lecturer, Tel Aviv University. Chairperson, WikiProject Medicine Foundation. Chairperson, Wikipedia & Education User Group. Chairperson, The Hebrew Literature Digitization Society. Chief Editor, Project Ben-Yehuda. +972-525640648
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 9:48 PM Avery Jensen averydjensen@gmail.com wrote:
It looks like this form is linked from the front page of the user group and it is still collecting personal data. Should it be removed? There are probably other people who have gotten talk page notifications and are not on this mailing list. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Group
I see also the names of the people who signed up for the project have all been removed. Maybe this is why I didn't get any board election notifications from this user group.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Gr...
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:50 PM Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com wrote:
Of course.
Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 20:48 Andrew Leung, andrewcleung@hotmail.com
wrote:
When you resend the revised form, can you delete all of the existing
data
submitted under the previous version to ensure that unneeded
information
won't be stored?
Andrew
Sent from my smartphone. Apologies for any typos.
-------- Original message -------- From: Shani Evenstein shani.even@gmail.com Date: 2018-11-12 1:44 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Education ML education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] join user group without google
Hello all,
There seems to be some misunderstanding --
- We are recognized by AffCom. The details we requested are for a
future
option we might want to persue, of refistering as a charity *outside*
the
Wikimedia movement.
- Details are not posted to this mailing list, but rather to a closed
and
private google form, which is only availabe to 2 people: the membership admin (Filip) and the chair (me).
- Some details were asked so if we decide to apply to become a charity,
we
will already have the details; while other details are meant to help us connect the right people to the right people, when newcomers approach
us.
- There is precedent for asking such details with both chapters & the
WikiProject Medicine User Group, which is similar in acrivity to our
UG.
- That said, as this is concerning people, the board will reconsider
changing the form. The idea is to make it easy to participate, not difficult. If we end up deciding to register as a charity outside the
WM
Movement, we'll ask for more details.
So stay tuned. Filip will send a new version of the form in the coming week.
Best, Shani.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:57 Avery Jensen, averydjensen@gmail.com
wrote:
I do not understand why they are asking people for personal data at
all.
The Wikimedia Foundation has requirements for people with access to personal information.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_personal_data_policy
It looks like they want to apply for official recognition from the affiliations committee. Groups are not required to do this, but it
has
some advantages, like using the trademarks. The application
requires "
two
primary contacts willing to identify themselves with the Wikimedia Foundation." https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups
It
also says if someone wants to form an official group, they can have "Affiliations Committee Liaison support during and after the approval process". If that is what they are trying to do, they need to have
some
advice about starting a group, so they do not cause the Wikimedia Foundation some legal problem.
I would also strongly recommend that people not post their phone
numbers
to
this list. Unlike the Wikimedia projects, information on a mailing
list
cannot be removed and is indexed by search engines.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:59 AM Alexandre Hocquet < alexandre.hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 09:36, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
I agree in that point.
Although what points Ilario is relevant, my main concern (as Avery points out too) is more the use of Google forms with *mandatory*
fields
to fill than the privacy policy of the user group and/or the
"centre
for
Internet & society" (although I agree that more clarity on that
point
might help too)
In short, if applying to membership means compulsory give away of
pieces
of information like phone numbers to Google, then I'm not in.
Alternatively, if google document it is, then the least would be to
NOT
make the fields to fill up mandatory.
Alexandre Hocquet
Université de Lorraine & Archives Henri Poincaré Alexandre.Hocquet@univ-lorraine.fr
http://poincare.univ-lorraine.fr/fr/membre-titulaire/alexandre-hocquet
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education