I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux. Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students> for students. If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration. thanks Vojtěch Dostál místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/FsHJr> 2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter &lt;osamadre(a)hotmail.com&gt;om>: > I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students > working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. > I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough > to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider > community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very > difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding > in any form. > > +1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the > need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the > captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the > bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to > the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless > with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text > into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most > students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even > if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the > redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase > student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being > wrongly done. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 > From: charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com > To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor > > On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković &lt;dungodung(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > > It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way > that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an > ideal world :) > > That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world > we inhabit as Wikimedians. > > The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia > matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no > help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community > of productive Wikimedians. > > And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for > trainers. > > It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a > workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to > Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all). > > I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I > know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to > a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer). > > Charles > > > _______________________________________________ Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > > _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Hello everyone, Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently. Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns> on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout. Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical? On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education > communitty. > > FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the > next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague > Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us > with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration. > > Pine > On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" &lt;vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz&gt; > wrote: > >> I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It >> seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux. >> >> Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great >> need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to >> write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training >> module >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students> for >> students. >> >> If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It >> would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration. >> >> thanks >> >> >> Vojtěch Dostál >> >> místopředseda / vice-chairman >> Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic >> http://www.wikimedia.cz >> Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR> | Twitter >> <https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR> | Newsletter >> <http://eepurl.com/FsHJr> >> >> >> 2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter &lt;osamadre(a)hotmail.com&gt;om>: >> >>> I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students >>> working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. >>> I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough >>> to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider >>> community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very >>> difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding >>> in any form. >>> >>> +1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the >>> need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the >>> captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the >>> bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to >>> the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless >>> with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text >>> into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most >>> students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even >>> if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the >>> redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase >>> student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being >>> wrongly done. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 >>> From: charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com >>> To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor >>> >>> On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković &lt;dungodung(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>> It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way >>> that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an >>> ideal world :) >>> >>> That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world >>> we inhabit as Wikimedians. >>> >>> The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia >>> matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no >>> help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community >>> of productive Wikimedians. >>> >>> And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for >>> trainers. >>> >>> It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving >>> a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer >>> to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all). >>> >>> I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. >>> I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing >>> to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer). >>> >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Education mailing >>> list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/ >>> mailman/listinfo/education >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Education mailing list >>> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > > -- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ EE mailing list EE(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee

On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál < vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz&gt; wrote: > I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language > editions can profit from, right? > > I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. > > It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations. Charles _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using? Pine On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" &lt;jami(a)wikiedu.org&gt; wrote: > > We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. > Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the > concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important > no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in > the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you > cannot enable the VE. > Jami > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews > &lt;charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com&gt; wrote: >> >> On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál >> &lt;vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz&gt; wrote: >>> >>> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language >>> editions can profit from, right? >>> >>> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >>> >> It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new >> "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has >> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. >> >> A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen >> capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations. >> >> Charles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> > > > > -- > Jami Mathewson > Educational Partnerships Manager > Wiki Education Foundation > jami(a)wikiedu.org > User:Jami (Wiki Ed) > @WikiEducation > wikiedu.org/partnerships/ > > Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United > States and Canada. > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

> States and Canada. > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have. While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal. It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though. Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months. We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015. -Sage On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson &lt;jami(a)wikiedu.org&gt; wrote: > I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current > training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our best > resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve that just > yet. Sage may have better information about that, though. > > You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and may I > suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? > Jami > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to >> writing to Jaime Anstee!) >> >> Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE? >> >> LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those >> incorporated into the standard training anywhere? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Pine >> >> On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" &lt;jami(a)wikiedu.org&gt; wrote: >>> >>> They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a specific >>> training for VE. >>> >>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses >>>> using? >>>> >>>> Pine >>>> >>>> On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" &lt;jami(a)wikiedu.org&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. >>>>> Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the >>>>> concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important >>>>> no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in >>>>> the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you >>>>> cannot enable the VE. >>>>> Jami >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews >>>>> &lt;charles.r.matthews(a)ntlworld.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál >>>>>> &lt;vojtech.dostal(a)wikimedia.cz&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language >>>>>>> editions can profit from, right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >>>>>>> >>>>>> It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new >>>>>> "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has >>>>>> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. >>>>>> >>>>>> A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen >>>>>> capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations. >>>>>> >>>>>> Charles >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Education mailing list >>>>>> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jami Mathewson >>>>> Educational Partnerships Manager >>>>> Wiki Education Foundation >>>>> jami(a)wikiedu.org >>>>> User:Jami (Wiki Ed) >>>>> @WikiEducation >>>>> wikiedu.org/partnerships/ >>>>> >>>>> Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United >>>>> States and Canada. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Education mailing list >>>>> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Education mailing list >>>> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jami Mathewson >>> Educational Partnerships Manager >>> Wiki Education Foundation >>> jami(a)wikiedu.org >>> User:Jami (Wiki Ed) >>> @WikiEducation >>> wikiedu.org/partnerships/ >>> >>> Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United >>> States and Canada. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Education mailing list >>> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> > > > > -- > Jami Mathewson > Educational Partnerships Manager > Wiki Education Foundation > jami(a)wikiedu.org > User:Jami (Wiki Ed) > @WikiEducation > wikiedu.org/partnerships/ > > Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United > States and Canada. > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education