Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine
Wikimedia Israel made a nice one, although it is in Hebrew :)
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2015-02-21 21:24 GMT+02:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Excellent point, Pine. I myself don't even know how to use the VisualEditor - seems odd, but old-timers know how it feels, yep? But indeed, I'm sure my students would feel less intimidated if they don't need to learn any coding, even wiki.
I'd love to hear from colleagues who made this transition in their classes. Is switching to VisualEditor as effective as promised?
Juliana
Enviada do meu iPhone
Em 21/02/2015, às 17:24, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com escreveu:
Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hi Juliana, The attendees at the Cascadia Wikimedians User Group editing workshop expressed a strong preference for VisualEditor after learning the traditional interface with The Wikipedia Adventure.
Hi Amir, Would you be willing to translate the training into English?
Pine On Feb 21, 2015 12:00 PM, "domusaurea" domusaurea@gmail.com wrote:
Excellent point, Pine. I myself don't even know how to use the VisualEditor - seems odd, but old-timers know how it feels, yep? But indeed, I'm sure my students would feel less intimidated if they don't need to learn any coding, even wiki.
I'd love to hear from colleagues who made this transition in their classes. Is switching to VisualEditor as effective as promised?
Juliana
Enviada do meu iPhone
Em 21/02/2015, às 17:24, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com escreveu:
Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Last time I asked about it, I was told that nobody wants to make VE-related tutorials because VE is still changing, so people don't want to waste time creating video tutorials or such that may be obsolete tomorrow.
I do think it should be possible to create some video tutorials that about basic features that are unlikely to change, plus we should have a VE-equivalent for Wikipedia:Training/For students, but.. it's strange, WMF states that VE is one of their priorities, but clearly, advertising/teaching about VE isn't.
--
Piotr Konieczny, PhD http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
On 2/22/2015 04:24, Pine W wrote:
Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
Cheers, Filip
On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Piotr Konieczny piokon@post.pl wrote:
Last time I asked about it, I was told that nobody wants to make VE-related tutorials because VE is still changing, so people don't want to waste time creating video tutorials or such that may be obsolete tomorrow.
I do think it should be possible to create some video tutorials that about basic features that are unlikely to change, plus we should have a VE-equivalent for Wikipedia:Training/For students, but.. it's strange, WMF states that VE is one of their priorities, but clearly, advertising/teaching about VE isn't.
--
Piotr Konieczny, PhDhttp://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKoniecznyhttp://scholar.google.com/citation...
On 2/22/2015 04:24, Pine W wrote:
Hi all,
Is there a lesson plan available for an editor training workshop that uses VisualEditor? New editors seem to prefer learning VE but all lesson plans that I know of use the traditional wikitext interface.
I would like to be able to teach new editors the basics of editing and referencing using VE, plus talk pages using wikitext, in a one hour format.
Thanks,
Pine
Education mailing listEducation@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we
inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form. +1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote: It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians. The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians. And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers. It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all). I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer). Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout.
Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical?
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
On 02/23/2015 12:33 AM, Samir Elsharbaty wrote:
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Oh, I don't mind there being tutorials.
But since VE still isn't used very much in Serbian Wikipedia [1], we at Wikimedia Serbia haven't started integrating it into our Education program.
[1] it's still on an opt-in basis (you have to enable it explicitly in settings) and it still doesn't work well with our conversion system -- Serbian has two script variants (Latin and Cyrillic) and we have automatic conversion between the two built into MediaWiki (that's also enabled for Kazakh, Chinese Wikipedia and some others multi-script languages). There's additional wikisyntax involved (like tags that specify the text that is exempted from script conversion) and it still hasn't been integrated into VE, so that's why it's still not very useful for us.
Cheers, Filip
Hi Samir,
The use of VE may partially depend on the particular wiki involved. Also, we are still waiting on Citoid, which means that we still do references the old fashioned way. We also need to show new users how to create accounts and how to register in Education Extension course pages. So there is definitely room for training new users on Wikipedia mechanics even if they use VE.
In addition to the mechanics of editing, new users need to learn community norms with new users so that they know how to select article topics, how to avoid copyvios and BLP violations, what the 5 pillars are, how to meet medical referencing standards where appicable, how to use talk pages, how to use user and user talk pages, when to use the draft namespace and AFC, what sandboxes and infoboxes are, and how to deal with deletion discussions. Some of these norms will vary by wiki.
We also need to inspire new users so that editing feels valuable. LiAnna from Wiki Ed has some wonderful slides and ideas about that, so you may want to talk to her about incorporating her ideas into a learning pattern.
I would like to be able to cover all of these subjects with new users in one hour. If you can create a lesson plan for this, do please upload an outline and slides to Commons, and create one or more learning patterns. You may want to coordinate the lesson plan development with other people on the WMF education team and in Wiki Ed. There will be a substantial time commitment to do all of this well, so I hope that Floor will agree to support this project with the necessary staff time.
I would like to make use of these resources in April if not sooner.
Thanks very much for your interest. Please let us know if Floor wants to proceed with this project and when we can expect the finished products.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 3:33 PM, "Samir Elsharbaty" selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout.
Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical?
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool. What we practically need to do is have two Trainings for the transition period. The introductory parts of the Training module can stay the same - principles of Wikipedia community etc. do not change. However, the parts that concern practical editing should be offered in both Wikimarkup and VisualEditor. Readers will be able to choose the one they like and go through it.
If Samir and WMF want to look into this we will be more than happy. Translation of preexisting guide is much easier than doing it from scratch. The Hebrew version will be of limited use because nobody in Wikimedia Czech Republic speaks Hebrew. Also, I would strongly prefer a version that uses the classical Training-based style (it is easier to go through and readers are more likely to finish it than a plain PDF).
Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do some translations of our texts into English if you are interested. On the other hand, English Wikipedia is not very likely to profit from a VE training because VE was switched off on English Wikipedia, right?
best regards
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-23 1:05 GMT+01:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Samir,
The use of VE may partially depend on the particular wiki involved. Also, we are still waiting on Citoid, which means that we still do references the old fashioned way. We also need to show new users how to create accounts and how to register in Education Extension course pages. So there is definitely room for training new users on Wikipedia mechanics even if they use VE.
In addition to the mechanics of editing, new users need to learn community norms with new users so that they know how to select article topics, how to avoid copyvios and BLP violations, what the 5 pillars are, how to meet medical referencing standards where appicable, how to use talk pages, how to use user and user talk pages, when to use the draft namespace and AFC, what sandboxes and infoboxes are, and how to deal with deletion discussions. Some of these norms will vary by wiki.
We also need to inspire new users so that editing feels valuable. LiAnna from Wiki Ed has some wonderful slides and ideas about that, so you may want to talk to her about incorporating her ideas into a learning pattern.
I would like to be able to cover all of these subjects with new users in one hour. If you can create a lesson plan for this, do please upload an outline and slides to Commons, and create one or more learning patterns. You may want to coordinate the lesson plan development with other people on the WMF education team and in Wiki Ed. There will be a substantial time commitment to do all of this well, so I hope that Floor will agree to support this project with the necessary staff time.
I would like to make use of these resources in April if not sooner.
Thanks very much for your interest. Please let us know if Floor wants to proceed with this project and when we can expect the finished products.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 3:33 PM, "Samir Elsharbaty" selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout.
Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical?
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Dobrá práce Vojto, na tohle jsem fakt zvědavej!
On Mon Feb 23 2015 at 11:16:22 Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool. What we practically need to do is have two Trainings for the transition period. The introductory parts of the Training module can stay the same - principles of Wikipedia community etc. do not change. However, the parts that concern practical editing should be offered in both Wikimarkup and VisualEditor. Readers will be able to choose the one they like and go through it.
If Samir and WMF want to look into this we will be more than happy. Translation of preexisting guide is much easier than doing it from scratch. The Hebrew version will be of limited use because nobody in Wikimedia Czech Republic speaks Hebrew. Also, I would strongly prefer a version that uses the classical Training-based style (it is easier to go through and readers are more likely to finish it than a plain PDF).
Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do some translations of our texts into English if you are interested. On the other hand, English Wikipedia is not very likely to profit from a VE training because VE was switched off on English Wikipedia, right?
best regards
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-23 1:05 GMT+01:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Samir,
The use of VE may partially depend on the particular wiki involved. Also, we are still waiting on Citoid, which means that we still do references the old fashioned way. We also need to show new users how to create accounts and how to register in Education Extension course pages. So there is definitely room for training new users on Wikipedia mechanics even if they use VE.
In addition to the mechanics of editing, new users need to learn community norms with new users so that they know how to select article topics, how to avoid copyvios and BLP violations, what the 5 pillars are, how to meet medical referencing standards where appicable, how to use talk pages, how to use user and user talk pages, when to use the draft namespace and AFC, what sandboxes and infoboxes are, and how to deal with deletion discussions. Some of these norms will vary by wiki.
We also need to inspire new users so that editing feels valuable. LiAnna from Wiki Ed has some wonderful slides and ideas about that, so you may want to talk to her about incorporating her ideas into a learning pattern.
I would like to be able to cover all of these subjects with new users in one hour. If you can create a lesson plan for this, do please upload an outline and slides to Commons, and create one or more learning patterns. You may want to coordinate the lesson plan development with other people on the WMF education team and in Wiki Ed. There will be a substantial time commitment to do all of this well, so I hope that Floor will agree to support this project with the necessary staff time.
I would like to make use of these resources in April if not sooner.
Thanks very much for your interest. Please let us know if Floor wants to proceed with this project and when we can expect the finished products.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 3:33 PM, "Samir Elsharbaty" selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout.
Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical?
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding in any form.
+1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being wrongly done.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com To: education@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor
On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com wrote:
It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an ideal world :)
That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world we inhabit as Wikimedians.
The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community of productive Wikimedians.
And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for trainers.
It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all).
I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer).
Charles
_______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Iam sorry for my last message, that will be for Vojtěch Dostál only.
JS.
On Mon Feb 23 2015 at 11:54:00 Jiří Sedláček jirisedlacek@gmail.com wrote:
Dobrá práce Vojto, na tohle jsem fakt zvědavej!
On Mon Feb 23 2015 at 11:16:22 Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool. What we practically need to do is have two Trainings for the transition period. The introductory parts of the Training module can stay the same - principles of Wikipedia community etc. do not change. However, the parts that concern practical editing should be offered in both Wikimarkup and VisualEditor. Readers will be able to choose the one they like and go through it.
If Samir and WMF want to look into this we will be more than happy. Translation of preexisting guide is much easier than doing it from scratch. The Hebrew version will be of limited use because nobody in Wikimedia Czech Republic speaks Hebrew. Also, I would strongly prefer a version that uses the classical Training-based style (it is easier to go through and readers are more likely to finish it than a plain PDF).
Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do some translations of our texts into English if you are interested. On the other hand, English Wikipedia is not very likely to profit from a VE training because VE was switched off on English Wikipedia, right?
best regards
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-23 1:05 GMT+01:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
Hi Samir,
The use of VE may partially depend on the particular wiki involved. Also, we are still waiting on Citoid, which means that we still do references the old fashioned way. We also need to show new users how to create accounts and how to register in Education Extension course pages. So there is definitely room for training new users on Wikipedia mechanics even if they use VE.
In addition to the mechanics of editing, new users need to learn community norms with new users so that they know how to select article topics, how to avoid copyvios and BLP violations, what the 5 pillars are, how to meet medical referencing standards where appicable, how to use talk pages, how to use user and user talk pages, when to use the draft namespace and AFC, what sandboxes and infoboxes are, and how to deal with deletion discussions. Some of these norms will vary by wiki.
We also need to inspire new users so that editing feels valuable. LiAnna from Wiki Ed has some wonderful slides and ideas about that, so you may want to talk to her about incorporating her ideas into a learning pattern.
I would like to be able to cover all of these subjects with new users in one hour. If you can create a lesson plan for this, do please upload an outline and slides to Commons, and create one or more learning patterns. You may want to coordinate the lesson plan development with other people on the WMF education team and in Wiki Ed. There will be a substantial time commitment to do all of this well, so I hope that Floor will agree to support this project with the necessary staff time.
I would like to make use of these resources in April if not sooner.
Thanks very much for your interest. Please let us know if Floor wants to proceed with this project and when we can expect the finished products.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 3:33 PM, "Samir Elsharbaty" selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
Seems that there is a great interest in having a tutorial for the VE especially for WEP workshops. However, as a volunteer Wikipedian, I have always looked at it as a tool that could help with copyediting and fixing typos after a long editing session for example or that would help a new user make a quick change without a need to master the editing techniques. I would have thought like Filip that Visual editor wouldn't need a tutorial. It's just like social media websites that people work on directly and learn by practice. Anyway, sorry Filip, seems the majority looks at it differently.
Would it be helpful if there is a learning pattern https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns on helping with VE? If yes, would anyone of the VE users be able to volunteer for creating it? Also, if another more practical detailed option is needed I would be happy to create a PDF tutorial. It can be uploaded to Commons so that anyone can print and dispense in the workshops as a handout.
Do you think any of those two ideas would help? Do you have other ideas that could be more practical?
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I am very happy to see such strong interest in VE from the education communitty.
FYI, if we don't hear back about a lesson plan for VE training in the next few days, either in Hebrew or English, I will contact our colleague Michal who is the executive director of WMIL to see if she can provide us with at least a Hebrew version that we can use for inspration.
Pine On Feb 22, 2015 2:14 PM, "Vojtěch Dostál" vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I also wondered if there is a VE-oriented training somewhere. It seems there isn't - because VE is in a state of flux.
Because Czech Republic uses VE to train students we are in a great need of such a training, and are currently asking for a small contract to write a simple wiki-based tutorial, mostly based on Wikipedia:Training module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students for students.
If there is a Hebrew VE training could someone please link it? It would be lovely to see it, at least to get some inspiration.
thanks
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-22 14:02 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter osamadre@hotmail.com:
> I still do not use VE in my training (despite having 200+ students > working on three campuses) because there are too many things it cannot do. > I dont have time to constantly play with it to see if it is now good enough > to use. I will likely not use it until it is accepted by the wider > community. However, the lack of a viable VE does make scalability very very > difficult, especially with older teachers who adjust less to idea of coding > in any form. > > +1 on the frustrations for those with new accounts. I understand the > need for protections with new accounts, but why in the heck does the > captcha "error" message appear at the top and the captcha itself at the > bottom? Students only see the red "error" and I have to tell them to go to > the bottom and its only a captcha. In addition, because we use wireless > with the same IP address, we get errors when I am having a class move text > into sandboxes or copy/paste finished articles into the mainspace. Most > students cant use the move function as they dont have enough errors. Even > if they did, using it would render the sandbox worthless because of the > redirect. Add to this trigger-happy bibliotecarios in es.wiki who erase > student work with little or no explanation, the last two times being > wrongly done. > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 11:55:31 +0000 > From: charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com > To: education@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Editor training with VisualEditor > > On 22 February 2015 at 10:33, Filip Maljković dungodung@gmail.com > wrote: > > It is my impression that the VE should be ideally made in such a way > that a tutorial isn't really necessary. But I guess we don't live in an > ideal world :) > > That is the "ideal world according to Silicon Valley", not the world > we inhabit as Wikimedians. > > The projects want useful content, and how people write for Wikipedia > matters much more than how they do on Facebook. The world of no manuals, no > help pages, no support is not one in which we can easily grow our community > of productive Wikimedians. > > And the way the WMF releases software makes life very hard for > trainers. > > It is literally true that you need to check the night before giving > a workshop, with a new account, what the current experience for a newcomer > to Wikipedia is (capchas, strange messages, moving buttons and all). > > I believe the latest WMUK training leaflet takes the VE as a given. > I know their older leaflet on images mentions it, in a way found confusing > to a newcomer (as I found - she was a Computer Officer). > > Charles > > > _______________________________________________ Education mailing > list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/education > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education > >
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org
EE mailing list EE@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
On 23 February 2015 at 10:15, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
On the other hand, English Wikipedia is not very likely to profit from a VE training because VE was switched off on English Wikipedia, right?
The situation on enWP is that the VE is not enabled by default, but it can
be enabled under "Beta features" in "Preferences".
Charles
On 23 February 2015 at 10:15, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool.
I think the reality of WYSIWYG systems is that they will always frustrate advanced users. I don't think a time will come when the only wikitext editors are bots. And, after all, looking at the wikitext of how something is done is one good way to learn it.
Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to
write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do some translations of our texts into English if you are interested.
It is the sort of thing I would do for the WMUK Virtual Learning Environment, as contract work, since there is a clear lead. But I don't know if they would fund it.
Charles
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
best regards
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-02-23 12:06 GMT+01:00 Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com
:
On 23 February 2015 at 10:15, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
In my opinion, VE will gradually replace the old editor and the new wave of editors will learn to edit using VE, not the old Wiki markup system. It won't just be a copyediting or "small edit" tool.
I think the reality of WYSIWYG systems is that they will always frustrate advanced users. I don't think a time will come when the only wikitext editors are bots. And, after all, looking at the wikitext of how something is done is one good way to learn it.
Ideally, could any of the interested parties state that they intend to
write a VisualEditor training (in English) of some sort? Same as Pine, we do not want to wait ages for it - a two months time seems like a reasonable period that we could wait for. If not, we will write it, and hopefully do some translations of our texts into English if you are interested.
It is the sort of thing I would do for the WMUK Virtual Learning Environment, as contract work, since there is a clear lead. But I don't know if they would fund it.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new "digital
literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new
"digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using?
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál <vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz
wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new
"digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a specific training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using?
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál < vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz> wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new
"digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a specific training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using?
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál < vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz> wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new
"digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our best resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve that just yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and may I suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a specific training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using?
Pine On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál < vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz> wrote:
I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language editions can profit from, right?
I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit.
It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new
"digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org jami@wikiedfoundation.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jami_(Wiki_Ed) @WikiEducation https://twitter.com/WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
*Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.*
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have.
While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal.
It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though.
Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months.
We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015.
-Sage
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our best resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve that just yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and may I suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a specific training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these courses using?
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this term. Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as the concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are important no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki markup in the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages where you cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote: > > I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other language > editions can profit from, right? > > I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. > It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick introduction. It has quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania.
A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple operations.
Charles
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
Thanks, Pine On Feb 23, 2015 2:19 PM, "Sage Ross" ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have.
While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal.
It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though.
Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months.
We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015.
-Sage
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our
best
resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve that
just
yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and
may I
suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a
specific
training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these
courses
using?
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this
term.
Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as
the
concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are
important
no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki
markup in
the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages
where you
cannot enable the VE. Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote: > > On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál > vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote: >> >> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other
language
>> editions can profit from, right? >> >> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >> > It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new > "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick
introduction. It has
> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. > > A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen > capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple
operations.
> > Charles > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Hi Pine,
Thanks for reviving this topic, it's an important one to people all around the world as Visual Editor is rolled out. VE is still being developed actively every day, and that means that any written instruction would very soon become outdated. That doesn't sound like the best time spent for anyone to me, even while I completely understand the need. We would be more than happy to work on something like that once VE is in a more ready state when we will know little more will change. Once we get to that point, we would love to have community involvement in it, so that we can make sure it answers the main questions people have who are using it.
So, to be continued! If anyone has already elaborated something that can be shared, even if it is in a different language, I encourage you to share it!
Thanks to all of you for moving us forward!
Best, Floor
Floor Koudijs
Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 x6806 (landline)
+1.415.692.5289 (cell phone)
fkoudijs@wikimedia.org
education.wikimedia.org
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
Thanks, Pine On Feb 23, 2015 2:19 PM, "Sage Ross" ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have.
While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal.
It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though.
Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months.
We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015.
-Sage
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our
best
resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve that
just
yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and
may I
suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a
specific
training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these
courses
using?
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote: > > We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this
term.
> Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as
the
> concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are
important
> no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki
markup in
> the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages
where you
> cannot enable the VE. > Jami > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews > charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote: >> >> On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál >> vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote: >>> >>> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other
language
>>> editions can profit from, right? >>> >>> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >>> >> It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new >> "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick
introduction. It has
>> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. >> >> A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen >> capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple
operations.
>> >> Charles >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> > > > > -- > Jami Mathewson > Educational Partnerships Manager > Wiki Education Foundation > jami@wikiedu.org > User:Jami (Wiki Ed) > @WikiEducation > wikiedu.org/partnerships/ > > Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
> States and Canada. > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
H Floor,
I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
I/we will proceed without the WMF. If others are interested in being involved, then please email me off list.
Pine On Mar 12, 2015 4:37 PM, "Floor Koudijs" fkoudijs@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for reviving this topic, it's an important one to people all around the world as Visual Editor is rolled out. VE is still being developed actively every day, and that means that any written instruction would very soon become outdated. That doesn't sound like the best time spent for anyone to me, even while I completely understand the need. We would be more than happy to work on something like that once VE is in a more ready state when we will know little more will change. Once we get to that point, we would love to have community involvement in it, so that we can make sure it answers the main questions people have who are using it.
So, to be continued! If anyone has already elaborated something that can be shared, even if it is in a different language, I encourage you to share it!
Thanks to all of you for moving us forward!
Best, Floor
Floor Koudijs
Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 x6806 (landline)
+1.415.692.5289 (cell phone)
fkoudijs@wikimedia.org
education.wikimedia.org
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
Thanks, Pine On Feb 23, 2015 2:19 PM, "Sage Ross" ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have.
While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal.
It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though.
Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months.
We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015.
-Sage
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the current training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our
best
resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve
that just
yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students, and
may I
suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's inbox? Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used to writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a
specific
training for VE.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com
wrote:
> > Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these
courses
> using? > > Pine > > On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote: >> >> We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this
term.
>> Those classes still assigned the regular training for students, as
the
>> concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios are
important
>> no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki
markup in
>> the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages
where you
>> cannot enable the VE. >> Jami >> >> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews >> charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote: >>> >>> On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál >>> vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote: >>>> >>>> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other
language
>>>> editions can profit from, right? >>>> >>>> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >>>> >>> It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new >>> "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick
introduction. It has
>>> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. >>> >>> A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen >>> capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple
operations.
>>> >>> Charles >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Education mailing list >>> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jami Mathewson >> Educational Partnerships Manager >> Wiki Education Foundation >> jami@wikiedu.org >> User:Jami (Wiki Ed) >> @WikiEducation >> wikiedu.org/partnerships/ >> >> Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
>> States and Canada. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the United States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
We are working on a VisualEditor-based version of Wikipedia:Training. Not sure when we are done with it... hopefully in a month's time.
best regards
Vojtěch Dostál
místopředseda / vice-chairman Wikimedia Česká republika / Wikimedia Czech Republic http://www.wikimedia.cz Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Wikimedia.CR | Twitter https://twitter.com/Wikimedia_CR | Newsletter http://eepurl.com/FsHJr
2015-03-13 3:02 GMT+01:00 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com:
H Floor,
I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
I/we will proceed without the WMF. If others are interested in being involved, then please email me off list.
Pine On Mar 12, 2015 4:37 PM, "Floor Koudijs" fkoudijs@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Pine,
Thanks for reviving this topic, it's an important one to people all around the world as Visual Editor is rolled out. VE is still being developed actively every day, and that means that any written instruction would very soon become outdated. That doesn't sound like the best time spent for anyone to me, even while I completely understand the need. We would be more than happy to work on something like that once VE is in a more ready state when we will know little more will change. Once we get to that point, we would love to have community involvement in it, so that we can make sure it answers the main questions people have who are using it.
So, to be continued! If anyone has already elaborated something that can be shared, even if it is in a different language, I encourage you to share it!
Thanks to all of you for moving us forward!
Best, Floor
Floor Koudijs
Senior Manager, Wikipedia Education Program
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 x6806 (landline)
+1.415.692.5289 (cell phone)
fkoudijs@wikimedia.org
education.wikimedia.org
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
Thanks, Pine On Feb 23, 2015 2:19 PM, "Sage Ross" ragesoss+wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
I think Charles' suggestion is right on: a couple of screencasts demonstrating the use of VE would be a great thing to have.
While VE itself needs less and less explanation in terms of the mechanics, there's still a lot that newcomers won't know in terms of how they *ought* to use it. It would be great to demonstrate the basics of what is expected of a Wikipedia article, using VE. This is somewhat analogous to the approach we took with VE in the "Editing Wikipedia" brochure: the center spread is about edting with VisualEditor and wikitext, but the VisualEditor side of it is all about the structure of a Wikipedia article. Showing a tightly edited demonstration of someone starting a well-structured sandbox article from scratch in VE, and explaining why they are using all the formmatting tools they use along the way — from bolding the title to section headers to wikilinks to citations to adding images to external links in a 'see also' section — that would be ideal.
It's probably not something Wiki Education Foundation would tackle any time soon, though.
Similarly, it would nice to have some guided tours that walk through the basics of VE usage, similar to the wikitext ones in the current training. I *might* find time to squeeze that in at some point in the next few months.
We're tenatively planning to redo the WP:STUDENT training as part of the Dashboard/Course Page system we're building, so that it would have knowledge checks along the way and probably send users over to Wikipedia to go through sandbox guided tours to practice the basics. But that won't happen until (probably) late 2015.
-Sage
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Jami Mathewson jami@wikiedu.org wrote:
I don't know what our future training plans are, as I think the
current
training is pretty great for English Wikipedia. Definitely one of our
best
resources for students, so it's probably not a priority to improve
that just
yet. Sage may have better information about that, though.
You'll have to be more specific about ideas that inspire students,
and may I
suggest we take this off-list so as not to overwhelm everybody's
inbox?
Jami
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Jami (and sorry for misspelling your name. I am far too used
to
writing to Jaime Anstee!)
Will Wiki Ed be developing training for VE?
LiAnna had some great ideas about how to inspire students. Are those incorporated into the standard training anywhere?
Thanks,
Pine
On Feb 23, 2015 12:26 PM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org wrote: > > They're still using the student training[1], as we do not have a
specific
> training for VE. > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com
wrote:
>> >> Hi Jaime, thanks for the info. What training materials are these
courses
>> using? >> >> Pine >> >> On Feb 23, 2015 9:50 AM, "Jami Mathewson" jami@wikiedu.org
wrote:
>>> >>> We have some classes that are editing primarily with the VE this
term.
>>> Those classes still assigned the regular training for students,
as the
>>> concepts about the community, policies, sourcing, and copyvios
are important
>>> no matter which editor you use. We also thought the intro to wiki
markup in
>>> the training would still be useful—for talk pages and other pages
where you
>>> cannot enable the VE. >>> Jami >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Charles Matthews >>> charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com wrote: >>>> >>>> On 23 February 2015 at 12:56, Vojtěch Dostál >>>> vojtech.dostal@wikimedia.cz wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I suppose WMUK's learning environment is not something other
language
>>>>> editions can profit from, right? >>>>> >>>>> I still strongly prefer the Wikipedia:Training toolkit. >>>>> >>>> It depends what you want. The VLE is 81 lessons, now plus one new >>>> "digital literacy" course, and so is more than a quick
introduction. It has
>>>> quizzes, and I added some videos just before Wikimania. >>>> >>>> A simple solution to teaching the VE would be perhaps two screen >>>> capture videos, demonstrating how to use it for some simple
operations.
>>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Education mailing list >>>> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jami Mathewson >>> Educational Partnerships Manager >>> Wiki Education Foundation >>> jami@wikiedu.org >>> User:Jami (Wiki Ed) >>> @WikiEducation >>> wikiedu.org/partnerships/ >>> >>> Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
>>> States and Canada. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Education mailing list >>> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Education mailing list >> Education@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >> > > > > -- > Jami Mathewson > Educational Partnerships Manager > Wiki Education Foundation > jami@wikiedu.org > User:Jami (Wiki Ed) > @WikiEducation > wikiedu.org/partnerships/ > > Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
> States and Canada. > > _______________________________________________ > Education mailing list > Education@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education >
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
-- Jami Mathewson Educational Partnerships Manager Wiki Education Foundation jami@wikiedu.org User:Jami (Wiki Ed) @WikiEducation wikiedu.org/partnerships/
Our organization supports the Wikipedia Education Program in the
United
States and Canada.
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
On 12 March 2015 at 15:10, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
I started using a Chromebook last July, precisely because I wanted to make
screencast videos. I would recommend the screencast app for Chromebook, simply because it is free and I could get quick results. (I don't know whether it is open source.)
In this context, of training videos that will need to be changed soon, it makes a lot of sense to me to work with this sort of lightweight system, and develop an informal, conversational style - very much "live".
Of course you need to do some rehearsal and scripting, but it is possible to get decent results after a few hours. (I do have lecturing experience: I probably like the approach for that reason.)
Charles
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 12 March 2015 at 15:10, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
I started using a Chromebook last July, precisely because I wanted to
make screencast videos. I would recommend the screencast app for Chromebook, simply because it is free and I could get quick results. (I don't know whether it is open source.)
In this context, of training videos that will need to be changed soon, it makes a lot of sense to me to work with this sort of lightweight system, and develop an informal, conversational style - very much "live".
Of course you need to do some rehearsal and scripting, but it is possible to get decent results after a few hours. (I do have lecturing experience: I probably like the approach for that reason.)
Charles
Screencasts: See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SCREENCAST for a good resource about screencasts. (And please help update it!)
For linux, I really like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Screencast/Software#Reco... - very simple and easy to use.
I made this 40 second video using it: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Navigation_popups_quick_tour.ogv (notes on talkpage) The process took about 2.5 hours: half that time was getting the script right, and the browser-tabs setup properly; and half was making about 50 recording run-throughs before I had an error/stutter-free version. The hardest (most labour intensive) part of any screencast-creation, is getting the resources created and organized (script re-re-re-re-written, images/pages selected).
VE screencast: I too, would love to see a few VE screencasts. Ideally some very short and high-velocity ones aimed at power-users (look at how awesome VE is now!), as well as some more calm and polished (but still short) ones aimed at newcomers.
VE GuidedTour: There's also a task to make a more extensive GuidedTour for VE, at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89074 (See the old and very very basic (2-step) "demonstration" version, linked at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GuidedTour#List_of_tours if you just want an example to dissect/adapt. I hope these will proliferate over the coming years.)
Hope that helps. --Quiddity
Wow! Thank you for the useful links, Quiddity!
Your screencast about popups is a nice one btw!! :)
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 10:04 PM, quiddity pandiculation@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Charles Matthews < charles.r.matthews@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 12 March 2015 at 15:10, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Following up on this: Cascadia Wikimedians may need some kind of presentation outline or screencast along these lines by mid-April. If the WMF education team and others can't create one by that time, we/I might hack together a rudimentary version and put it on Commons for others to reuse and/or build on.
Does anyone have recommendations for screencast creation software, preferably ones that are open source?
I started using a Chromebook last July, precisely because I wanted to
make screencast videos. I would recommend the screencast app for Chromebook, simply because it is free and I could get quick results. (I don't know whether it is open source.)
In this context, of training videos that will need to be changed soon, it makes a lot of sense to me to work with this sort of lightweight system, and develop an informal, conversational style - very much "live".
Of course you need to do some rehearsal and scripting, but it is possible to get decent results after a few hours. (I do have lecturing experience: I probably like the approach for that reason.)
Charles
Screencasts: See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:SCREENCAST for a good resource about screencasts. (And please help update it!)
For linux, I really like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Screencast/Software#Reco...
- very simple and easy to use.
I made this 40 second video using it: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Navigation_popups_quick_tour.ogv (notes on talkpage) The process took about 2.5 hours: half that time was getting the script right, and the browser-tabs setup properly; and half was making about 50 recording run-throughs before I had an error/stutter-free version. The hardest (most labour intensive) part of any screencast-creation, is getting the resources created and organized (script re-re-re-re-written, images/pages selected).
VE screencast: I too, would love to see a few VE screencasts. Ideally some very short and high-velocity ones aimed at power-users (look at how awesome VE is now!), as well as some more calm and polished (but still short) ones aimed at newcomers.
VE GuidedTour: There's also a task to make a more extensive GuidedTour for VE, at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89074 (See the old and very very basic (2-step) "demonstration" version, linked at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GuidedTour#List_of_tours if you just want an example to dissect/adapt. I hope these will proliferate over the coming years.)
Hope that helps. --Quiddity
Education mailing list Education@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education