False accusation with the respective punishment, that is. If it was just a false accusation I would not care that much about it, though I obviously dislike being falsely accused.
Paulo
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 15:01, Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> escreveu:
Hi Robert,
I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and having no way to defend yourself appeal.
Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only happening to the others. Unfortunately it is not my case, and I know in first person how flawed the system is.
Apart from the details of the case described by the OP, the almost total lack of due process is extremely worrying, especially to those who already experimented it failing in first hand.
Best, Paulo
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 14:43, Robert Fernandez < wikigamaliel@gmail.com> escreveu:
At some point we have to decide who this movement and community is for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who are not popular, who are not loud voices on community forums, who do not want to be harassed or leered at or made uncomfortable?
Everything is a tradeoff, and based on what I've seen I'll take the lack of "due process" from trained and responsible professionals over the popularity contests of the mob any day.
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that,
creates
a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events; and provides a tool
easy to
abuse by clever persons who understood how to game the system, as a
vehicle
for severe harassment itself.
This creates an unsafe and unfriendly space in the events,and should
really
be looked at.
Best, Paulo
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 06:57, Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> escreveu:
First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know
that I
personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and wise. I totally support and trust their judgement.
I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate
official
chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged
offenders,
showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for
alleged
victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of harrassment.
How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are questionned by official members of our movement?
Nattes à chat
Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com a écrit :
It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the
Wikimedia
movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting
someone
who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they
had
to
intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was
affected
by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you
when
you
grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the feelings of others."
If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just
reflect on
this thread.
Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon
the
energy to write.
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