Hi Robert,
I believe you will only keep that opinion until the day you would be
subject to a false accusation by the WMF, without even knowing it, and
having no way to defend yourself appeal.
Everything is easy to talk about and have opinions while it is only
happening to the others. Unfortunately it is not my case, and I know in
first person how flawed the system is.
Apart from the details of the case described by the OP, the almost total
lack of due process is extremely worrying, especially to those who already
experimented it failing in first hand.
Best,
Paulo
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 14:43, Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com> escreveu:
At some point we have to decide who this movement
and community is
for. Is it for popular individuals to act out in any way they please
and be awarded maximum freedom and lack of accountability? Or is it
so we can insure a friendly space for everyone, including those who
are not popular, who are not loud voices on community forums, who do
not want to be harassed or leered at or made uncomfortable?
Everything is a tradeoff, and based on what I've seen I'll take the
lack of "due process" from trained and responsible professionals over
the popularity contests of the mob any day.
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:56 AM Paulo Santos Perneta
<paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Taking everything and their dog as "harassment", without due process to
verify it, and issuing punishments one can't appeal based on that,
creates
a feeling of fear and insecurity in the events;
and provides a tool
easy to
abuse by clever persons who understood how to
game the system, as a
vehicle
for severe harassment itself.
This creates an unsafe and unfriendly space in the events,and should
really
be looked at.
Best,
Paulo
A sexta, 21 de jun de 2019, 06:57, Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> escreveu:
> First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know
that I
> personnally find that the actions of
Trust& Safety very valuable and
> wise. I totally support and trust their judgement.
>
> I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate
official
> chapter representants and employees publicly
supporting alleged
offenders,
> showing no aknowledgement of the fact that
this is very toxic for
alleged
> victims, and does not help to change
attitude towards issues of
> harrassment.
>
> How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are
> questionned by official members of our movement?
>
> Nattes à chat
>
>
>
>
>
> Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com> a
> écrit :
>
> >>
> >> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the
Wikimedia
> >> movement, to see an entire thread
like this dedicated to supporting
> someone
> >> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they
had
> to
> >> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was
> affected
> >> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may
help you
when
> you
> >> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> >> feelings of others."
> >>
> >> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> >> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just
reflect
on
> >> this thread.
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon
the
> > energy to write.
> >
> > Chris
> > _______________________________________________
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