Regarding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales/Statement_of_principles
Any changes to the software must be gradual and reversible. We need to make sure that any changes contribute positively to the community, as ultimately determined by the Wikimedia Foundation, in full consultation with the community consensus.
----
Lila at all, Why you don't consult he community about new projects/code?
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:35:06 -0800 From: lila@wikimedia.org To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?
Hi Gnangarra,
Thank you for forwarding, the authors of the article seem to be confused about the nature of the project. Our Comms team is working to clarify this. Please expect to see something from us in next few days.
Lila
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
FYI making main stream media
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/wikimedia-foundation-aims-to-take-o...
On 14 February 2016 at 00:49, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com wrote:
Anne, we're talking about almost the same thing, but not exactly. I say "advised" you say "consulted". "Consulted" implies soliciting or
expecting
some kind of response or engagement - probably approval/disapproval/critique/input. "Advised" means they got the memo. I think "advised" is enough, and if the board wants more engagement, they
can
initiate it - presuming the notification is clear and comprehensive, of course.
Anthony Cole
On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I'm not sure about that, Anthony. By "consulted", I would mean something to the effect of "We're looking at applying to XX for a grant
of
$YYY to do ZZZ" and asking the Board if they would be likely to agree
to
accept such a grant if the application is successful. The grant application, evaluation and approval process is costly in both time and resources, and for both the applicant and the grantmaker. Being
informed
that a grant has been approved sounds more like a fait accompli
situation
for the Board - they look petty and ungrateful if they say no, even if
they
don't think it was a reasonable grant application. In this case, we're only dealing with $250,000. What if this was $1 million? $10 million?
I think it is healthier for everyone if the Board is properly consulted before the application is submitted. (And again, I note that we don't
know
how much was actually requested in this case, only what was granted.)
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2016 at 21:23, Anthony Cole ahcoleecu@gmail.com
wrote:
Anne, regarding:
"Since the Board must approve acceptance of any donations over
$100,000
USD, it seems to be obvious that they should be consulted and
possibly
should actively approve any grant applications where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount."
I'm not sure that the board should be *consulted* ahead of such applications' or should prior-approve all such applications. That
seems a
bit like micromanagement. But it makes sense to me for the board to
be
*advised *of such applications and when they're being actively contemplated or prepared.
Anthony Cole
On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, Gerard. I personally
would
like
to feel more assured that the WMF is looking into the longer future
and
actively plannning for the day that donations no longer support a
large
staff doing lots of things.
I am concerned today that the team specifically tasked to work
closely
with
so many elements of the community has lost 7% of its staff, and 30%
of
its
leaders, in a single week. This should be a concern in any
organization.
With respect to the Knight grant - I know that many times grant applications are made for considerably more than is given, and I am interested to know how much the WMF requested in the first place.
I
would
also like to know whether or not the Board was formally advised of
the
request before it was submitted. Since the Board must approve
acceptance
of any donations over $100,000 USD, it seems to be obvious that
they
should
be consulted and possibly should actively approve any grant
applications
where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount. I don't
believe
the current policies require advance approval or even advance
notification,
though.
Risker/Anne
On 12 February 2016 at 03:54, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
> Hoi, > I am not complaining. I point out that all this huha does not get
us
> anywhere. I am not afraid to give an opinion and I am not afraid
to
be
a
> contrarian when I think it makes sense. Yes, things happened that
were
not > beautiful. They are not what upset me. What upsets me is that
people
like
> Siko and Anna are leaving. Because they are part of "my"
Wikimedia
> Foundation. What upsets me is that I routinely use Magnus's tool
and
> process hundreds of thousands of records and am to understand
that
official > query is stunted and does not allow for this "because it was not
in
the
> design" and it is then pointed out that it takes money to solve
this...
> > My point is that baying for blood is not what helps us forward.
What
I
do
> know is that when sheer negativity is not coupled with an ability
to
stop
> and move forward, we will get in a downward spiral. I fault Pine
for
not
> being able to stop. What I wish for is for people like Anna and
Siko
and
> money for our environment and not for an endowment. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:35, Michel Vuijlsteke <
wikipedia@zog.org
wrote: > > > Gerard, > > > > I was waiting for this mail. For me personally, your
complaining
is
> > achieving exactly the opposite of what you think. > > > > It sounds as if you'd much rather prefer to stick your head in
the
sand
> and > > hope things will blow over. "Move along, nothing to see here --
oh
look! > > something positive over there!" is not going to solve anything. > > > > Michel > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hoi, > > > Pine as you are talking about "self inflicting wounds" I take
it
you
> are > > > not talking in your personal capacity. When is it enough for
you?
When > > are > > > you going to talk about positive things, things that will
move
us
> > forward. > > > Why ask for blood and more blood? What is it that you hope to achieve? > > > > > > Who do you represent in this unending litany of negativity
and
what
> have > > > you achieved in this way? When Lila was engaged in her role,
she
was
to > > > direct in a different direction and she is doing that. You
may
not
like > > it > > > and that is ok. > > > Thanks, > > > GerardM > > > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 08:43, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > > > > > Dariusz, thanks for continuing to engage here. Besides the
good
> > questions > > > > that others have asked, I'll add a few: > > > > > > > > 1. If the Knowledge Engine is such an important project,
why
is
it
> not > > > > mentioned in > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2015-16
> > > ? > > > > > > > > 2. I realize that as a percentage of the WMF budget, $250k
is a
> > > relatively > > > > small number. As others have said, this is not a reason for
opacity
> > about > > > > it, nor a reason for not having a conversation with the
community
> about > > > > something so strategically important as a decision to
explore
the
> > > question > > > > of "Would users go to Wikipedia if it were an open channel
beyond
an > > > > encyclopedia?" It's one thing to have a blue-sky exercise
thinking
> > about > > > > possibilities, and another thing to take a $250k step in
that
> > direction, > > > > especially without consulting the community. > > > > > > > > 3. I am getting tired about seeing bad news in general
about
WMF
> > > > governance, planning, and turnover. I am curious how you
plan
to
> > address > > > > those issues. Like you, I would rather that we be talking
about
our
> > > > movement plans for the next 10 years. However, it's
difficult
to
have > > > those > > > > conversations when WMF is making so many self-inflicted
wounds.
The
> > > recent > > > > round of resignations is of respectable people from the WMF
staff
is > > > making > > > > the situation that much more concerning and that much more difficult > to > > > > recover from. It seems to me that WMF leadership has lost
control
of > > this > > > > situation, and I'd like to hear what the recovery plan is. > Personally, > > I > > > > feel that we need leadership that can build good
relationships
with
> the > > > > staff and community, is transparent by default, and is
capable
of
> > > restoring > > > > the credibility of the organization's planning, execution,
and
> > goodwill. > > > I > > > > think that we may need new leadership to make that happen.
I
am
> > > interested > > > > to hear your thoughts. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak < > darekj@alk.edu.pl > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > 11.02.2016 10:23 PM "SarahSV" sarahsv.wiki@gmail.com napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > Dariusz, > > > > > > > > > > > > T > > > > > > he grant application doesn't restrict the search engine
to
> > Wikimedia > > > > > projects. It says that the "Knowledge Engine by Wikipedia
[is
a]
> > system > > > > for > > > > > discovering reliable and trustworthy public information
on
the
> > > Internet. > > > > > > > > > > My understanding is that the top range could potentially
be
all
> > > > open/public > > > > > resources, but this is the far stretched total goal, and
still
not > a > > > > > general search engine of all content including commercial
one.
> > > > > > > > > > And a rrasonable realistic outcome can be just improving
our
> searches > > > > > across projects. > > > > > > > > > > I can't comment on the initial ideas or goals, as I was
not
on
the > > > Board > > > > > before August 2015, but this is what I understand we
build
now.
> > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > The document says the "Search Engine by Wikipedia"
budget
for
> > > 2015–2016 > > > > > ($2.4 million) was approved by the board. Can you point
us
to
> which > > > > board > > > > > meeting approved it and what was discussed there? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont recall this specifically, and I'm going to elude
this
> question > > > by > > > > > going to sleep (and hoping someone better informed may
pick).
> > > > > > > > > > Good night! > > > > > > > > > > Dj > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
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