Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 02:35:06 -0800
From: lila(a)wikimedia.org
To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Can we see the Knight grant application and grant offer?
Hi Gnangarra,
Thank you for forwarding, the authors of the article seem to be confused
about the nature of the project. Our Comms team is working to clarify this.
Please expect to see something from us in next few days.
Lila
On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 8:51 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
FYI making main stream media
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-15/wikimedia-foundation-aims-to-take-…
On 14 February 2016 at 00:49, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Anne, we're talking about almost the same
thing, but not exactly. I say
"advised" you say "consulted". "Consulted" implies
soliciting or
expecting
some kind of response or engagement - probably
approval/disapproval/critique/input. "Advised" means they got the memo. I
think "advised" is enough, and if the board wants more engagement, they
can
initiate it - presuming the notification is clear
and comprehensive, of
course.
Anthony Cole
On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I'm not sure about that, Anthony. By
"consulted", I would mean
something to the effect of "We're looking at applying to XX for a grant
of
> $YYY to do ZZZ" and asking the Board if they would be likely to agree
to
> accept such a grant if the application is
successful. The grant
> application, evaluation and approval process is costly in both time and
> resources, and for both the applicant and the grantmaker. Being
informed
> that a grant has been approved sounds more
like a fait accompli
situation
for the
Board - they look petty and ungrateful if they say no, even if
they
don't think it was a reasonable grant
application. In this case, we're
only dealing with $250,000. What if this was $1 million? $10 million?
I think it is healthier for everyone if the Board is properly consulted
before the application is submitted. (And again, I note that we don't
know
> how much was actually requested in this case, only what was granted.)
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 12 February 2016 at 21:23, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Anne, regarding:
> >
> > "Since the Board must approve acceptance of any donations over
$100,000
> > USD, it seems to be obvious that they
should be consulted and
possibly
>
should actively approve any grant applications where the dollar value
> sought is higher than that amount."
>
> I'm not sure that the board should be *consulted* ahead of such
> applications' or should prior-approve all such applications. That
seems a
> > bit like micromanagement. But it makes sense to me for the board to
be
> > *advised
> > *of such applications and when they're being actively contemplated or
> > prepared.
> >
> > Anthony Cole
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sorry to hear that you feel this way, Gerard. I personally
would
like
> > to feel more assured that the WMF is looking into the longer future
and
> > actively plannning for the day that
donations no longer support a
large
> > staff doing lots of things.
> >
> > I am concerned today that the team specifically tasked to work
closely
> with
> > so many elements of the community has lost 7% of its staff, and 30%
of
> > its
> > > leaders, in a single week. This should be a concern in any
> organization.
> > >
> > > With respect to the Knight grant - I know that many times grant
> > > applications are made for considerably more than is given, and I am
> > > interested to know how much the WMF requested in the first place.
I
>
would
> > also like to know whether or not the Board was formally advised of
the
> > > request before it was submitted. Since the Board must approve
> acceptance
> > > of any donations over $100,000 USD, it seems to be obvious that
they
>
should
> > be consulted and possibly should actively approve any grant
applications
> > where the dollar value sought is higher than that amount. I don't
> believe
> > the current policies require advance approval or even advance
> notification,
> > though.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> > On 12 February 2016 at 03:54, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > I am not complaining. I point out that all this huha does not get
us
> > > > anywhere. I am not afraid to give an opinion and I am not afraid
to
be
> a
> > > contrarian when I think it makes sense. Yes, things happened that
were
> > not
> > > beautiful. They are not what upset me. What upsets me is that
people
> > like
> > > > Siko and Anna are leaving. Because they are part of "my"
Wikimedia
> >
> Foundation. What upsets me is that I routinely use Magnus's tool
and
> > > > process hundreds of thousands of records and am to understand
that
> > > official
> > > > query is stunted and does not allow for this "because it was
not
in
the
> > > design" and it is then pointed out that it takes money to solve
this...
> > >
> > > My point is that baying for blood is not what helps us forward.
What
I
> do
> > > know is that when sheer negativity is not coupled with an ability
to
> stop
> > > and move forward, we will get in a downward spiral. I fault Pine
for
> not
> > > being able to stop. What I wish for is for people like Anna and
Siko
> > and
> > > > money for our environment and not for an endowment.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:35, Michel Vuijlsteke <
wikipedia(a)zog.org
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Gerard,
> > > > >
> > > > > I was waiting for this mail. For me personally, your
complaining
is
> > > > achieving exactly the
opposite of what you think.
> > > >
> > > > It sounds as if you'd much rather prefer to stick your head in
the
> sand
> > > and
> > > > hope things will blow over. "Move along, nothing to see here --
oh
> > look!
> > > > something positive over there!" is not going to solve
anything.
> > > >
> > > > Michel
> > > >
> > > > On 12 February 2016 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen <
> > gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > Pine as you are talking about "self inflicting wounds"
I take
it
> you
> > > are
> > > > > not talking in your personal capacity. When is it enough for
you?
> > > When
> > > > > are
> > > > > > you going to talk about positive things, things that will
move
us
> > > > > forward.
> > > > > > Why ask for blood and more blood? What is it that you hope
to
> > > achieve?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who do you represent in this unending litany of negativity
and
what
> > > have
> > > > > you achieved in this way? When Lila was engaged in her role,
she
> > was
> > > to
> > > > > > direct in a different direction and she is doing that. You
may
not
> > like
> > > > it
> > > > > and that is ok.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > GerardM
> > > > >
> > > > > On 12 February 2016 at 08:43, Pine W
<wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dariusz, thanks for continuing to engage here. Besides the
good
> > > > > questions
> > > > > > > that others have asked, I'll add a few:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. If the Knowledge Engine is such an important
project,
why
is
> > it
> > > > not
> > > > > > > mentioned in
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2015-16
> >
> > > ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I realize that as a percentage of the WMF budget, $250k
is a
> > > > > > relatively
> > > > > > > small number. As others have said, this is not a
reason for
> > opacity
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > it, nor a reason for not having a conversation with
the
> community
> > > > about
> > > > > > > something so strategically important as a decision to
explore
> the
> > > > > > question
> > > > > > > of "Would users go to Wikipedia if it were an
open channel
> beyond
> > > an
> > > > > > > encyclopedia?" It's one thing to have a
blue-sky exercise
> > thinking
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > possibilities, and another thing to take a $250k step
in
that
> > > > > direction,
> > > > > > > especially without consulting the community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3. I am getting tired about seeing bad news in
general
about
> WMF
> > > > > > > governance, planning, and turnover. I am curious how
you
plan
to
> > > > address
> > > > > > those issues. Like you, I would rather that we be talking
about
> > our
> > > > > > > movement plans for the next 10 years. However,
it's
difficult
to
> > have
> > > > > those
> > > > > > conversations when WMF is making so many self-inflicted
wounds.
> The
> > > > > recent
> > > > > > round of resignations is of respectable people from the
WMF
staff
> > is
> > > > > making
> > > > > > the situation that much more concerning and that much
more
> > difficult
> > > to
> > > > > > recover from. It seems to me that WMF leadership has lost
control
> > of
> > > > this
> > > > > > situation, and I'd like to hear what the recovery plan
is.
> > > Personally,
> > > > I
> > > > > > feel that we need leadership that can build good
relationships
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > staff and community, is transparent by default, and is
capable
of
> > > > > restoring
> > > > > > the credibility of the organization's planning,
execution,
and
> > > > > goodwill.
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > think that we may need new leadership to make that
happen.
I
am
> > > > > interested
> > > > > > to hear your thoughts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 7:32 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <
> > > darekj(a)alk.edu.pl
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 11.02.2016 10:23 PM "SarahSV"
<sarahsv.wiki(a)gmail.com>
> > napisał(a):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > Hi
> > > > > > > > Dariusz,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > T
> > > > > > > > he grant application doesn't restrict the
search engine
to
> > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > projects. It says that the "Knowledge Engine by
Wikipedia
[is
> > a]
> > > > > system
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > discovering reliable and trustworthy public
information
on
> the
> > > > > > Internet.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My understanding is that the top range could
potentially
be
all
> > > > > > open/public
> > > > > > > resources, but this is the far stretched total goal,
and
still
> > not
> > > a
> > > > > > > general search engine of all content including
commercial
one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And a rrasonable realistic outcome can be just
improving
our
> > > > searches
> > > > > > > > across projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I can't comment on the initial ideas or
goals, as I was
not
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > Board
> > > > > > > > before August 2015, but this is what I understand
we
build
> now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The document says the "Search Engine by
Wikipedia"
budget
> for
> > > > > > 2015–2016
> > > > > > > > ($2.4 million) was approved by the board. Can
you point
us
to
> > > which
> > > > > > board
> > > > > > > meeting approved it and what was discussed there?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I dont recall this specifically, and I'm going to
elude
this
> > > question
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > going to sleep (and hoping someone better informed
may
pick).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good night!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dj
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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GN.
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