Why did you mail this to the public mailing list? It seems to be a private communication.
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Newyorkbrad newyorkbrad@gmail.com wrote:
Wil:
Please take this particular aspect of the discussion offline without further postings about it.
There are entirely legitimate reasons for my request and for the expressions of concern from others that have come through in the past couple of hours. This request is not an attempt to stifle any form of Wikipedia/Wikimedia criticism nor your becoming more familiar with the projects and their communities.
Newyorkbrad/IBM
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Wil Sinclair wllm@wllm.com wrote:
What???
What talk page are you talking about? How in the world am I making an unsafe environment?
Those are some *very* serious charges. I'm really just stunned.
*No wonder people are afraid to post here!*
,Wil
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
On 28 May 2014 21:37, Molly White gorillawarfarewikipedia@gmail.com
wrote:
Harassment: Has harassment been addressed in a comprehensive way on all sites, including all of the WP site? As an example, Wikipedia has had a problem with low and declining female participation for years, and the WMF has often stated that it would like to address it. Are women actively encouraged to participate on Wikipedia by the WMF or other organizations? If we're not doing everything to protect women and all other Wikipedians, is it morally or ethically correct to perform outreach to potentially vulnerable groups? I'd especially like to hear about this from a female perspective.
A great start would be to hold this conversation in a safe space where people can discuss without fear of reprisal. I do not mean to say that wikimedia-l, nor any other public Wikimedia mailing list or page, is an inherently unsafe place to hold this discussion—that's not the case at
all.
But trying to hold this discussion after all the drama that you have
been
passing through this list in the past few days makes this a scary place
for
myself and others to post.
You have ensured that this list has Wikipediocracy's rapt attention. Although I don't doubt the folks over there pay some attention to the regular goings-on of this list, the threads that you have been
motivating
and interacting with mean that every comment to this list is being scrutinized, and anyone they dislike is being torn apart. You have also shown that you have been interacting with and, at least to some degree, sympathizing with at least one person who, I feel, is dangerous.
You have created a space where comments are being picked apart by a
group
of people eager to find or fabricate any flaw. My revision-deletion of an extremely violent and threatening edit was construed not as a standard admin action but as some sort of "clean-up" after someone whom they feel I am desperate to protect or cover up. You have drawn the attention of a dangerous user, who had not had contact with me for quite some time
until
now. You have the attention of at least one, likely more, of the people
who
created the racist, sexist, and threatening attack/doxxing pages
mentioning
me at EncyclopediaDramatica.
So you'll have to excuse me when I'm somewhat unwilling to give my more in-depth "female perspective" here and now.
Yours, Molly (GorillaWarfare)
I'm going to second what Molly says here, Wil. I'm a woman who has held positions that have attracted abuse and harassment (directed both at me and my family) throughout the movement for years, and the first time I
have
ever felt unsafe on this mailing list was today.
You knew that the subject you were raising here had already caused a Wikimedia staffer to take the (very unusual) step of advising his ED that s/he felt unsafe because of your actions, not to mention the post that
was
left on a talk page. Let me tell you, Wil, 85-90% of women would never edit Wikipedia again if that post had been left on their talk page. And yet, you could not leave it alone. It was all about you, and how you
were
done wrong by, and how you didn't like how someone who has a long history of making violently and sexually graphic abusive posts on English
Wikipedia
(and other places) was treated. (I'm pretty sure he didn't get around to telling you why he was banned, but you knew by the time you were drawn
away
from IRC.)
So..you perpetuated the feeling of unsafeness for your own purposes
rather
than respect that your actions (whether intentionally or not) had created that unsafe setting. Several community members tried to draw you away
from
continuing in this vein, myself included, but you were not to be
deterred.
Your determination to continue to perpetuate this unsafeness, by actively participating in the ridiculing of Wikimedians, is precisely the kind of behaviour that makes Wikimedia projects so unpleasant for women.
I've been trying very hard to keep an open mind about you, despite your unwillingness to modify your behaviour or even try to work with the Wikimedia community. But today, you went too far.
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