Please take this particular aspect of the discussion offline without
further postings about it.
There are entirely legitimate reasons for my request and for the
expressions of concern from others that have come through in the past
couple of hours. This request is not an attempt to stifle any form of
Wikipedia/Wikimedia criticism nor your becoming more familiar with the
projects and their communities.
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Wil Sinclair <wllm(a)wllm.com> wrote:
What talk page are you talking about? How in the world am I making an
Those are some *very* serious charges. I'm really just stunned.
*No wonder people are afraid to post here!*
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 28 May 2014 21:37, Molly White
> > Harassment: Has harassment been addressed in a comprehensive way on
> > all sites, including all of the WP site? As an example, Wikipedia has
> > had a problem with low and declining female participation for years,
> > and the WMF has often stated that it would like to address it. Are
> > women actively encouraged to participate on Wikipedia by the WMF or
> > other organizations? If we're not doing everything to protect women
> > and all other Wikipedians, is it morally or ethically correct to
> > perform outreach to potentially vulnerable groups? I'd especially like
> > to hear about this from a female perspective.
> A great start would be to hold this conversation in a safe space where
> people can discuss without fear of reprisal. I do not mean to say that
> wikimedia-l, nor any other public Wikimedia mailing list or page, is an
> inherently unsafe place to hold this discussion—that's not the case at
> But trying to hold this discussion after all
the drama that you have
> passing through this list in the past few
days makes this a scary place
> myself and others to post.
> You have ensured that this list has Wikipediocracy's rapt attention.
> Although I don't doubt the folks over there pay some attention to the
> regular goings-on of this list, the threads that you have been
> and interacting with mean that every comment
to this list is being
> scrutinized, and anyone they dislike is being torn apart. You have also
> shown that you have been interacting with and, at least to some degree,
> sympathizing with at least one person who, I feel, is dangerous.
> You have created a space where comments are being picked apart by a
> people eager to find or fabricate any flaw. My revision-deletion of an
> extremely violent and threatening edit was construed not as a standard
> action but as some sort of "clean-up" after someone whom they feel I am
> desperate to protect or cover up. You have drawn the attention of a
> dangerous user, who had not had contact with me for quite some time
> now. You have the attention of at least one,
likely more, of the people
> created the racist, sexist, and threatening
So you'll have to excuse me when I'm somewhat unwilling to give my more
in-depth "female perspective" here and now.
I'm going to second what Molly says here, Wil. I'm a woman who has held
positions that have attracted abuse and harassment (directed both at me
and my family) throughout the movement for years, and the first time I
ever felt unsafe on this mailing list was today.
You knew that the subject you were raising here had already caused a
Wikimedia staffer to take the (very unusual) step of advising his ED that
s/he felt unsafe because of your actions, not to mention the post that
left on a talk page. Let me tell you, Wil,
85-90% of women would never
edit Wikipedia again if that post had been left on their talk page. And
yet, you could not leave it alone. It was all about you, and how you
done wrong by, and how you didn't like how
someone who has a long history
of making violently and sexually graphic abusive posts on English
(and other places) was treated. (I'm pretty
sure he didn't get around to
telling you why he was banned, but you knew by the time you were drawn
So..you perpetuated the feeling of unsafeness for your own purposes
than respect that your actions (whether
intentionally or not) had created
that unsafe setting. Several community members tried to draw you away
continuing in this vein, myself included, but you
were not to be
Your determination to continue to perpetuate this
unsafeness, by actively
participating in the ridiculing of Wikimedians, is precisely the kind of
behaviour that makes Wikimedia projects so unpleasant for women.
I've been trying very hard to keep an open mind about you, despite your
unwillingness to modify your behaviour or even try to work with the
Wikimedia community. But today, you went too far.
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