Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ...
... selects strongly against women.
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ...
... selects strongly against women.
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such equipment only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many girls/ women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: <
CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ...
... selects strongly against women.
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
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I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such equipment only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many girls/ women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: <
CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ...
... selects strongly against women.
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise, and though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had found research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
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-- _________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186 _______________ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it implied that you meant editing the WP.
And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel bakpack? ;-)
Rui
2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or access to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we are talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: <
CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ...
>... selects strongly against women.
Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty understanding wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
and
though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex issues associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods tend to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for women than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone could provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
found
research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than men do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have funded a research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
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,
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-- _________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186 _______________ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hoi, <grin> Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians </grin> She is VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com wrote:
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it implied that you meant editing the WP.
And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel bakpack? ;-)
Rui
2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first three weeks] Message-ID: <
CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: ... >>... selects strongly against women. > > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
understanding
> wikitext than men?
(Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women")
As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
and
though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd syntax, given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article creation quite happily.
There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex
issues
associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave differently to others. None is something that appears to "select strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods
tend
to be biased towards men.
If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for
women
than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone
could
provide a link?
Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
found
research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than
men
do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have
funded a
research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- _________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186 _______________ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- _________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186 _______________ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Gerard, Thanks for the vote of confidence! Rui, I meant "interact" in the sense of "user interface", so to edit Wikipedia, one must first interact with the edit button, something I have tried endlessly to get my friends to do. Instead, whenever they notice something wrong on Wikipedia, they call me. Though I am flattered that they think I know all aspects of several million articles, it does frustrate me that they think they are doing me a favor by telling me they found a mistake.
My point is that given a finite number of hours to edit Wikipedia for any given person (male or female), the number of those hours spent on a handheld device will affect the productivity of those available hours in a negative way (like as in zero productivity - go try editing Wikipedia on a smartphone!).
2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, <grin> Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians </grin> She is VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com wrote:
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your friends "interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in it implied that you meant editing the WP.
And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as big a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel bakpack? ;-)
Rui
2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com:
> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 > From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com > To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The first > three weeks] > Message-ID: > <
CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: > ... > >>... selects strongly against women. > > > > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
understanding
> > wikitext than men? > > (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women") > > As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I found > this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience. New > women users seem little different to men in the issues that arise,
and
> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd > syntax, > given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic article > creation quite happily. > > There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex
issues
> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual > difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave > differently to others. None is something that appears to "select > strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of defining > notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s > professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods
tend
> to be biased towards men. > > If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for
women
> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone
could
> provide a link? > > Fae
FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
found
research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than
men
do. That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and experimentation.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have
funded a
research project in this IEG round focused on women's participation. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia
Pine
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Hi Jane
I got it. ;-)
I am in a similar situation - as a translator, I sign up to a handful of mutual help lists. On a daily basis, whatever the cry for help in whatever language, someone will go to the WP and see what it says there (which of course is great and great news). If the same article is of good quality in any two languages, then it is better than any dictionary, as you can see the terms that you are working with and you get to better understand the concepts (if required - remember, members are translators, not necessarily experts in the specific subject).
However, if the - in this case - Portuguese page is of poor quality, boy, do you get the little group that goes on about it. However, try as I may, I can't get them to donate a few hours to go and fix something that they moaned about. Some have 'discovered' the discussion pages and click there to see what I have been discussing with other editors.
Rui
2014-06-01 21:31 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Gerard, Thanks for the vote of confidence! Rui, I meant "interact" in the sense of "user interface", so to edit Wikipedia, one must first interact with the edit button, something I have tried endlessly to get my friends to do. Instead, whenever they notice something wrong on Wikipedia, they call me. Though I am flattered that they think I know all aspects of several million articles, it does frustrate me that they think they are doing me a favor by telling me they found a mistake.
My point is that given a finite number of hours to edit Wikipedia for any given person (male or female), the number of those hours spent on a handheld device will affect the productivity of those available hours in a negative way (like as in zero productivity - go try editing Wikipedia on a smartphone!).
2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, <grin> Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians </grin> She
is
VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com wrote:
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone back and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
friends
"interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go on the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
it
implied that you meant editing the WP.
And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
big
a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel bakpack? ;-)
Rui
2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or tablet and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not
to
edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than men, and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about
the
same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of
all
people!) gave me for my birthday.
2014-06-01 8:52 GMT+02:00, ENWP Pine deyntestiss@hotmail.com: >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 06:39:38 +0100 >> From: Fæ faewik@gmail.com >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Increase participation [WAS: The
first
>> three weeks] >> Message-ID: >> < CAH7nnD3meyLLRFd+ssS-trSajXRreq0uiDOm07M_9nx-oiqyTw@mail.gmail.com
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> On 1 June 2014 04:26, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote: >> ... >> >>... selects strongly against women. >> > >> > Where is the evidence that women have more difficulty
understanding
>> > wikitext than men? >> >> (Probably drifting to "Increase participation by women") >> >> As someone who has run editathons on women focused topics, I
found
>> this an odd comment that does not match anecdotal experience.
New
>> women users seem little different to men in the issues that
arise,
and
>> though I have found myself apologising for the slightly odd >> syntax, >> given the standard crib-sheet most users get on with basic
article
>> creation quite happily. >> >> There are far more commonly raised issues such as the complex
issues
>> associated with image upload (copyright!), or the conceptual >> difficulty of "namespaces" which mean that some webpages behave >> differently to others. None is something that appears to "select >> strongly against women", though the encyclopedia's way of
defining
>> notability can make it harder to create articles about pre-1970s >> professional women, purely because sources from earlier periods
tend
>> to be biased towards men. >> >> If there are surveys that wiki-syntax is more of a barrier for
women
>> than men (after discounting out other factors), perhaps someone
could
>> provide a link? >> >> Fae > > FWIW, I think that Lila said at the Zurich hackathon that she had
found
> research indicating that fewer women click the "edit" button than
men
> do. > That sounds like a phenomenon that could use some research and > experimentation. >
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2014-05-10_Wikimedia_Hackathon_Lila_...
> > > Also, the Individual Engagement Grants Committee and WMF have
funded a
> research project in this IEG round focused on women's > participation. > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_and_Wikipedia > > Pine > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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I am not disputing that and don't for a second doubt that. ;-)
Down south here in South Africa "interact" would not be understood the way she meant it.
So, I have learnt two things: that (interacting on WP), and <grin> as an alternative for ;-)
A great week to all
Rui
PS: emoticons would not be a bad idea on the talk pages - they would certainly alleviate tensions and tone down fights.
2014-06-01 21:16 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, <grin> Jane is in my top 1% of most accomplished Wikimedians </grin> She is VERY effective on both Wikipedia, Commons and WIkidata. Thanks, GerardM
On 1 June 2014 21:13, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com wrote:
Well, from your previous post I was left the distinct impression that neither you nor your female friends edit the Wikipedia. So I have gone
back
and reread your post to see what I missed. I see that you and your
friends
"interact". For the life of me I thought that by "interact" you meant go
on
the internet and interact with people - on social media etc. Nothing in
it
implied that you meant editing the WP.
And no, I have never edited on an iPad - why should I, if I work on as
big
a screen as I can get that is still small enough to pack into a travel bakpack? ;-)
Rui
2014-06-01 20:47 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
I'll bet you have never tried to edit Wikipedia on an iPad
2014-06-01 20:25 GMT+02:00, Rui Correia correia.rui@gmail.com:
Jane
I think we are talking about two different things. Ownership of or
access
to equipment with access to the internet is not the same thing as we
are
talking about. If anything, the fact that more women own any such
equipment
only goes to reinforce what we already know, which is that not many
girls/
women are taking part in editing the Wikipedia.
Rui
2014-06-01 9:30 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com:
Of course I am just a sample of one, but in my personal circle of female friends, most of them only interact with a smartphone or
tablet
and though they may own a full-fledged computer, they only interact with that machine for certain boring and obligatory tasks such as filing taxes and printing. This is in and of itself, a reason not to edit, in my mind. Research into the use of tablets in 2012 in the Netherlands did indicate that more women were active on them than
men,
and a simple google search picked this 2013 BBC article up about the same holding true for women in the UK: "Women own most of the UK's tablet computers says study" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23355944
Disclaimer: I am a frequent user of an iPad-1 that my mother (of all people!) gave me for my birthday.
_________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186 _______________
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org