The Foundation has received a complaint about the page on homosexuality on the Wikipedia in Arabic. According to the person who complained, as well as to people who ran the article through translators, the article contains heavily jugmental assertions.
This is not the first time that we received complaints about such kind of judgmental content based on cultural or religious norms ; I think we also got similar complaints about the Yiddish Wikipedia.
In these cases, there are common traits : * The bias expressed arises from the dominant culture of the people who speak the language and thus get on the wiki. (Arabic tends to be spoken in Muslim countries ; Yiddish tends to be spoken in Orthodox Askhenazi Jew communities ; both of these religions condemn homosexuality.) * The wiki communities are small. * Very few people, or even none, at the Foundation or on OTRS (the email processing system) read the said languages.
We also seem to have similar issues with e.g. regional languages or languages from small countries with strong nationalism issue.
Your suggestions? It's hard to fix an article whose language we don't speak.
-- DM
The URL is: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AB%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A9
The article, or parts of the article clearly mentions that homosexuality causes AIDS, and causes many more medical problems. It also mentions that psychologists in the "Western World" found a cure homosexuality, which I take as hint to homosexuality being a disease.
The article goes even further as to mention what Islam's view on homosexuality is and mentions that Homosexuals should be killed according to the Islam Prophet. The rest of the article is full of wrong definitions and incorrect information but on a more acceptable level.
Hello all, I've been reading this mailing list for some time now but this's my first message actually. About the issue we have here, I've reviewed the article now and it does has some biased statements. the "cure of Homosexuality" section is added directly from an Arabic site where someone saying he is a homosexual and asking for help to stop homosexuality, then a doctor replies with what's written in the Wikipedia page section about a research done (no references to that research) showing some statistics about this topic, a template has been added now to put more references to this particular part.
The "homosexuality in Islam" section was saying that "homosexuality causes AIDS as all other kinds of sexual activities do", I removed this part as it's not appropriate here, needs a seperate section about medical and biological effects of homosexuality the whole section now is rephrased and included in "homosexuality in religions" section, and it should be fine by now. I wish that the complainer to the foundation begin editing to improve the article.
I see the problem is the same as in larger wikipedias, but in larger ones there're alot of people who edit the article and there're much more possibity of NPOV than in smaller ones like Arabic. active people are really few and you don't expect that all the articles are good ones in current time, on the other hand we do have excellent neutral articles written about "hot topics" in Muslim and Arabic communities like "Atheism[1], Holocaust[2], War on terrorism[3], Freemasonry[4], Freedom of speech[5]" and many more.
what I'm trying to say that taking into consideration the number of people working on the project, I think we've done a good job since we've started back in 2003. You can't judge the whole thing through some biased articles, the wiki culture is not yet well-known through the Arab world and when someone comes to write in Wikipedia, they think it's some kind of a forum and writes his own opinion, but I'm optimistic about the future, we're growing in the number of "active" wikipedians. Also here in Egypt specifically we're trying to build-up Egyptian Wiki community which began actions since the bid for Wikimania Alexandria 2007, and then now preparing other events to organize.
Best Regards, Mido, sysop on Arabic Wikipedia
1. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A5%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AF 2. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%87%D9%88%D9%84%D9%88%D9%83%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%A... 3. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%... 4. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%88%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9 5. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%...
On 11/21/06, David Monniaux David.Monniaux@free.fr wrote:
The Foundation has received a complaint about the page on homosexuality on the Wikipedia in Arabic. According to the person who complained, as well as to people who ran the article through translators, the article contains heavily jugmental assertions.
This is not the first time that we received complaints about such kind of judgmental content based on cultural or religious norms ; I think we also got similar complaints about the Yiddish Wikipedia.
In these cases, there are common traits :
- The bias expressed arises from the dominant culture of the people who
speak the language and thus get on the wiki. (Arabic tends to be spoken in Muslim countries ; Yiddish tends to be spoken in Orthodox Askhenazi Jew communities ; both of these religions condemn homosexuality.)
- The wiki communities are small.
- Very few people, or even none, at the Foundation or on OTRS (the email
processing system) read the said languages.
We also seem to have similar issues with e.g. regional languages or languages from small countries with strong nationalism issue.
Your suggestions? It's hard to fix an article whose language we don't speak.
-- DM
The URL is: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AB%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A9
The article, or parts of the article clearly mentions that homosexuality causes AIDS, and causes many more medical problems. It also mentions that psychologists in the "Western World" found a cure homosexuality, which I take as hint to homosexuality being a disease.
The article goes even further as to mention what Islam's view on homosexuality is and mentions that Homosexuals should be killed according to the Islam Prophet. The rest of the article is full of wrong definitions and incorrect information but on a more acceptable level. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Mohamed Ibrahim wrote:
Hello all, I've been reading this mailing list for some time now but this's my first message actually. About the issue we have here, I've reviewed the article now and it does has some biased statements. the "cure of Homosexuality" section is added directly from an Arabic site where someone saying he is a homosexual and asking for help to stop homosexuality, then a doctor replies with what's written in the Wikipedia page section about a research done (no references to that research) showing some statistics about this topic, a template has been added now to put more references to this particular part.
The "homosexuality in Islam" section was saying that "homosexuality causes AIDS as all other kinds of sexual activities do", I removed this part as it's not appropriate here, needs a seperate section about medical and biological effects of homosexuality the whole section now is rephrased and included in "homosexuality in religions" section, and it should be fine by now. I wish that the complainer to the foundation begin editing to improve the article.
I see the problem is the same as in larger wikipedias, but in larger ones there're alot of people who edit the article and there're much more possibity of NPOV than in smaller ones like Arabic. active people are really few and you don't expect that all the articles are good ones in current time, on the other hand we do have excellent neutral articles written about "hot topics" in Muslim and Arabic communities like "Atheism[1], Holocaust[2], War on terrorism[3], Freemasonry[4], Freedom of speech[5]" and many more.
what I'm trying to say that taking into consideration the number of people working on the project, I think we've done a good job since we've started back in 2003. You can't judge the whole thing through some biased articles, the wiki culture is not yet well-known through the Arab world and when someone comes to write in Wikipedia, they think it's some kind of a forum and writes his own opinion, but I'm optimistic about the future, we're growing in the number of "active" wikipedians. Also here in Egypt specifically we're trying to build-up Egyptian Wiki community which began actions since the bid for Wikimania Alexandria 2007, and then now preparing other events to organize.
Best Regards, Mido, sysop on Arabic Wikipedia
Hello,
I do not think he was implying that the content was overall not good. All projects have started small and we all met this situation where an article was biased but there were few editors and not enough knowledgeable on the topic. This is just part of growing, that's fine.
I think the main issue is rather this one. People are writing to otrs about issues on some projects with a language no one at otrs knows enough to even look at the article or conflict or whatever.
David could forward the email to your mailing list (presumably wikiar-l exists) or post it on your pump (though it is really really hard when you really do not know the language). However, there is a policy at otrs: messages received are considered private. We can not post them publicly.
So, David, or others, just do not know what to do with these emails and those requests.
Cheers
Anthere
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%87%D9%88%D9%84%D9%88%D9%83%D9%88%D8%B3%D8%A... 3. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%... 4. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%88%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9 5. http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B1%D8%...
On 11/21/06, David Monniaux David.Monniaux@free.fr wrote:
The Foundation has received a complaint about the page on homosexuality on the Wikipedia in Arabic. According to the person who complained, as well as to people who ran the article through translators, the article contains heavily jugmental assertions.
This is not the first time that we received complaints about such kind of judgmental content based on cultural or religious norms ; I think we also got similar complaints about the Yiddish Wikipedia.
In these cases, there are common traits :
- The bias expressed arises from the dominant culture of the people who
speak the language and thus get on the wiki. (Arabic tends to be spoken in Muslim countries ; Yiddish tends to be spoken in Orthodox Askhenazi Jew communities ; both of these religions condemn homosexuality.)
- The wiki communities are small.
- Very few people, or even none, at the Foundation or on OTRS (the email
processing system) read the said languages.
We also seem to have similar issues with e.g. regional languages or languages from small countries with strong nationalism issue.
Your suggestions? It's hard to fix an article whose language we don't speak.
-- DM
The URL is: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AB%D9%84%D9%8A%D8%A9
The article, or parts of the article clearly mentions that homosexuality causes AIDS, and causes many more medical problems. It also mentions that psychologists in the "Western World" found a cure homosexuality, which I take as hint to homosexuality being a disease.
The article goes even further as to mention what Islam's view on homosexuality is and mentions that Homosexuals should be killed according to the Islam Prophet. The rest of the article is full of wrong definitions and incorrect information but on a more acceptable level. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Hello,
The Arabic Embassy is mentioned on meta as all other embassies and can be easily contacted, any of the admins will reply to u, the current ambassador is absent and likely will be replaced soon. I've left a msg about this particular issue in homosexual_talk, you can leave a message about what you want in the embassy page in English so u can get a contact to talk to or in the pump in Arabic. also the wiki-ar is a good place to leave your messages, despite being inactive currently but most active wikipedians and admins are already subscribed.
Embassy: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8... Pump: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8... Mailing list: http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikiar-l
Best regards, Mido
On 11/21/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello,
I do not think he was implying that the content was overall not good. All projects have started small and we all met this situation where an article was biased but there were few editors and not enough knowledgeable on the topic. This is just part of growing, that's fine.
I think the main issue is rather this one. People are writing to otrs about issues on some projects with a language no one at otrs knows enough to even look at the article or conflict or whatever.
David could forward the email to your mailing list (presumably wikiar-l exists) or post it on your pump (though it is really really hard when you really do not know the language). However, there is a policy at otrs: messages received are considered private. We can not post them publicly.
So, David, or others, just do not know what to do with these emails and those requests.
Cheers
Anthere
____________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Anthere wrote:
I think the main issue is rather this one. People are writing to otrs about issues on some projects with a language no one at otrs knows enough to even look at the article or conflict or whatever.
David could forward the email to your mailing list (presumably wikiar-l exists) or post it on your pump (though it is really really hard when you really do not know the language). However, there is a policy at otrs: messages received are considered private. We can not post them publicly.
So, David, or others, just do not know what to do with these emails and those requests.
Cheers
Anthere
So, what about having a couple of trusted people from ar.wikipedia dealing with otrs?
Marco/Cruccone
Marco Chiesa wrote:
Anthere wrote:
I think the main issue is rather this one. People are writing to otrs about issues on some projects with a language no one at otrs knows enough to even look at the article or conflict or whatever.
David could forward the email to your mailing list (presumably wikiar-l exists) or post it on your pump (though it is really really hard when you really do not know the language). However, there is a policy at otrs: messages received are considered private. We can not post them publicly.
So, David, or others, just do not know what to do with these emails and those requests.
Cheers
Anthere
So, what about having a couple of trusted people from ar.wikipedia dealing with otrs?
Marco/Cruccone
Yes :-) Volunteers ?
Meanwhile, I take it that the wikiar-l is probably the best option by far to contact ar editors.
ant
I can help with this. Any questions or comments about Arabic Wikipedia are welcomed, either to me directly (mail, talk page) or like Anthere said to the mailing list.
-- Mido
On 11/21/06, Anthere Anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Marco Chiesa wrote:
Anthere wrote:
I think the main issue is rather this one. People are writing to otrs about issues on some projects with a language no one at otrs knows enough to even look at the article or conflict or whatever.
David could forward the email to your mailing list (presumably wikiar-l exists) or post it on your pump (though it is really really hard when you really do not know the language). However, there is a policy at otrs: messages received are considered private. We can not post them publicly.
So, David, or others, just do not know what to do with these emails and those requests.
Cheers
Anthere
So, what about having a couple of trusted people from ar.wikipedia dealing with otrs?
Marco/Cruccone
Yes :-) Volunteers ?
Meanwhile, I take it that the wikiar-l is probably the best option by far to contact ar editors.
ant
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Right, as Anthere says I was not implying that the Arabic Wikipedia was overly bad. :-)
It's just my general feeling that the smaller the community is on a Wiki, the larger the chances are that some articles will be written from a specific point of view (often some point of view dominant in the community). There's no critical mass to neutralize them.
On 21/11/06, David Monniaux David.Monniaux@free.fr wrote:
It's just my general feeling that the smaller the community is on a Wiki, the larger the chances are that some articles will be written from a specific point of view (often some point of view dominant in the community). There's no critical mass to neutralize them.
Please tell me we're not going to have a Montenegrin Wikipedia to go with the Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian ones.
- d.
On 11/21/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
Please tell me we're not going to have a Montenegrin Wikipedia to go with the Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian ones.
- d.
Currently no but it got messy:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Requests_for_new_languages/cg
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org