Just an idea, and probably not a new one:
I'm consistently amazed by the amount of participation by young people in our projects. Ranging from featured article writing to organizational tasks, their participation covers the whole gamut of activities Wikimedia has to offer -- and many of them do it with passion and skills that should make any adult blush.
Would it be worth considering to organize national (perhaps also annual) conferences specifically targeted at youths participating in Wikimedia, and those who might do so in the future? Such a venue would be very different from the more serious Wikimania. It could be a summer camp, with music and some non-wiki activities (films, sports, ..).
Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner than typical conference sessions. They could include: - How to write really good articles? - How to do research in libraries? - What is this copyright stuff all about? - My POV, your POV, NPOV? - Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals - Jimbo's campfire stories - Write your own news with Wikinews - Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you - Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it
OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you get the idea. ;-)
Ideally, workshop leaders themselves should be youths with experience in Wikimedia, with some adult help to explain the more complex issues of law, policy and technology.
If we consider this a good idea, another question is whether we should do it in conjunction with other organizations like Creative Commons or the FSF. The closest thing to such an event I've participated in was the "Berlin 05" youth festival last year, where both Wikimedia and the Chaos Computer Club were present. (See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_05 for brief information about that event in German.)
A festival or camp might have more of a long term future with support from multiple organizations, an international make-up, and an annual schedule like Wikimania. A "Free Culture Youth Festival" might be a suitably generic framework. But a more focused Wiki-Camp might have its benefits, too.
Thoughts?
What a great idea -- "kids" meeting "kids" they found on the Internet.
Sarcasm aside, this sounds like a good idea. Though my personal preference would be to go to Wikimania itself. But I'm not normal in too many ways.
On 9/5/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Just an idea, and probably not a new one:
I'm consistently amazed by the amount of participation by young people in our projects. Ranging from featured article writing to organizational tasks, their participation covers the whole gamut of activities Wikimedia has to offer -- and many of them do it with passion and skills that should make any adult blush.
Would it be worth considering to organize national (perhaps also annual) conferences specifically targeted at youths participating in Wikimedia, and those who might do so in the future? Such a venue would be very different from the more serious Wikimania. It could be a summer camp, with music and some non-wiki activities (films, sports, ..).
Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner than typical conference sessions. They could include:
- How to write really good articles?
- How to do research in libraries?
- What is this copyright stuff all about?
- My POV, your POV, NPOV?
- Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals
- Jimbo's campfire stories
- Write your own news with Wikinews
- Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you
- Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it
OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you get the idea. ;-)
Ideally, workshop leaders themselves should be youths with experience in Wikimedia, with some adult help to explain the more complex issues of law, policy and technology.
If we consider this a good idea, another question is whether we should do it in conjunction with other organizations like Creative Commons or the FSF. The closest thing to such an event I've participated in was the "Berlin 05" youth festival last year, where both Wikimedia and the Chaos Computer Club were present. (See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_05 for brief information about that event in German.)
A festival or camp might have more of a long term future with support from multiple organizations, an international make-up, and an annual schedule like Wikimania. A "Free Culture Youth Festival" might be a suitably generic framework. But a more focused Wiki-Camp might have its benefits, too.
Thoughts?
-- Peace & Love, Erik _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 9/5/06, James Hare messedrocker@gmail.com wrote:
What a great idea -- "kids" meeting "kids" they found on the Internet.
Sarcasm aside, this sounds like a good idea. Though my personal preference would be to go to Wikimania itself. But I'm not normal in too many ways.
I think it's a great idea, and is somewhat like what I've helped organize with another nonprofit membership organization. One thing we do is the week before the actual annual conference, have that be the time to fly in students/youth to do the "camp" part, so that they can also benefit from attending the big conference.
So in a similar way, we could have a week before Wikimania where we gather the youth to have a special camp, which takes advantage of Wikipedians who might be able to show up.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
So in a similar way, we could have a week before Wikimania where we gather the youth to have a special camp, which takes advantage of Wikipedians who might be able to show up.
One caveat: Wikimania is already a pretty big event, with the Hacking Days before then .. I fear volunteer burn-out since it's likely going to be some of the same people who would attend both events.
Having different locations (e.g. have the YC in EU when WM is in US, etc.) would allow for different volunteers to participate in the organization of both events, taking off some of the strain. And Wikimedians who can't make it to Wikimania because it's too far away might be able to attend, as helpers, their local YC.
I think that is an absolutely wonderful idea. The free culture has greatly affected me for about four years now (I'm 17 at the moment). Initially it was just that I didn't have a job, so I didn't have the money to pay for anything. But eventually I got caught up in the spirit and philosophy of the whole thing.
Besides myself, I personally know quite a number of others that have had similar experiences. The prime example being Wikipedia. A youth festival type event, I believe, would harness the attention of many that timidly use and participate in the free culture to immerse themselves more into the projects.
The FSF has also come to attention of many youths (including myself). I cannot tell you the satisfaction I feel when I tell somebody that Linux or any other GPL'd software is not only free in price, but free as in liberty. It sparks quite a discussion about the entire philosophy of free information and a free culture.
A festival targeted for the youth would definitely be rewarding to both those who attend and the community.
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
Couldn't agree more. It'll look good on my college résumé when they see I did great stuff in the world of wiki.
On 9/5/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree with geni. The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the community. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
On 9/5/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Sigh... let's not go "fundamentalist" on this.
No one is rounding up youth and forcing them to participate only in camps. It's an *option* for youth who would like to meet other youth do something fun. It's just another choice in the spectrum of Wikimedia efforts.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree with geni. The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the community. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
On 9/5/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even less would be able to get there.
On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
Sigh... let's not go "fundamentalist" on this.
No one is rounding up youth and forcing them to participate only in camps. It's an *option* for youth who would like to meet other youth do something fun. It's just another choice in the spectrum of Wikimedia efforts.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST), I completely agree
with
geni. The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that
nobody
treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the community. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
On 9/5/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even less would be able to get there.
That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something they're into.
Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have become second nature to Wikipedians.
In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain tasks.)
Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
I am supportive for "tutorial tracks" Andrew mentioned. Not only for the younger generation, but also for other generations, including aged (and not familiar with PC and other techy things) etc.
In a practical mention, it would be meaningful to target the youth in that occasion, simply because they would be significant parts of our community, and generally they need to be trained. Some young Wikipedians (I am now recalling LeonWP on German Wikipedia, Kzhr on Japanese Wikipedia et al) have showed splendid maturity through their editorial activities, however it isn't inevitable they are still developping their skills in all directions. And the much clearer we can make the target of such event the more successful and the more practically managed it would be.
Back to the general topic, I saw once a question about training occasion on Japanese Wikipedia. A newcomer, supposedly middle-aged or older and seemed to have some experiences in his or her field, wanted to know if there was an oppotunity of editing tutorial sessions in real life. I recommend each language community to consider to hold such (perhaps local) lecture(s), if possible. It would be a good oppotunity to consider such tutorials are better to be organized by generation or not, too.
On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people would want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I don't think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably even less would be able to get there.
That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something they're into.
Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have become second nature to Wikipedians.
In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain tasks.)
Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I think the idea of having courses and workshops on these topics is great, but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth specifically; it needlessly singles them out and makes them different, and people of all ages can learn from things like this. Yes, it's good to train and nurture a new generation of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be a younger generation of Wikipedians. It should be targeted to the community as a whole, not just youths.
On 9/6/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
Of course, but we should make sure it's actually something that people
would
want to be part of before devoting a lot of effort to it. Frankly, I
don't
think that many kids on Wikipedia would be interested in a course called "Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it," and probably
even
less would be able to get there.
That's why I think as a start, it would be good to run this as a youth session for a few days before Wikimania rather than depending a dedicated gettogether. Just like Hacking Days is a magnet for technie types to join together to learn, there could be a preconference track for younger folks who can decide for themselves if it's something they're into.
Even if it's simply skills development, done in the context of Wikimania, it could get younger folks excited and involved. Some ideas might include - working with Wikimedia Commons, using Wikipedia in studies, media literacy, workshops on particular tasks. From a public relations angle, it's something that can show the Wikipedia community giving back to help train younger folks with the skills that have become second nature to Wikipedians.
In fact, very few of these things are specific to being "youth" but rather providing a nurturing environment to recruit and train a younger generation of Wikipedians. (Actually, for Wikimania 2007, this might be good thing to do for the conference in general - tutorial tracks for folks who would like to learn the nuts and bolts of certain tasks.)
Given recent questions about scalability of consensus, the poisonous RfA proceedings and trivia creeping into every corner of Wikipedia, we should be looking into more ways to keep the community healthy.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
I think the idea of having courses and workshops on these topics is great, but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth specifically; it needlessly singles them out and makes them different, and people of all ages can learn from things like this. Yes, it's good to train and nurture a new generation of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be a younger generation of Wikipedians. It should be targeted to the community as a whole, not just youths.
Refer to earlier post.
Sometimes young folks like to hang out with young folks.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
--- Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
I think the idea of having courses and workshops
on these topics is great,
but we shouldn't be targeting it towards youth
specifically; it needlessly
singles them out and makes them different, and
people of all ages can learn
from things like this. Yes, it's good to train
and nurture a new generation
of Wikipedians, but there's no reason for it to be
a younger generation of
Wikipedians. It should be targeted to the
community as a whole, not just
youths.
Refer to earlier post.
Sometimes young folks like to hang out with young folks.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
Also lets not forget that young people have much longer holidays than most people. I would think younger people are more likely to be able to attend and event a week before Wikimania.
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
Birgitte SB
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On 06/09/06, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
I can just imagine the writeup from Andrew Orlowski! The event doesn't have to have happened for me to be able to write it ...
- d.
On 9/6/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/09/06, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
I can just imagine the writeup from Andrew Orlowski! The event doesn't have to have happened for me to be able to write it ...
Well how about an OAP camp? after a lot of OAPs have IP we would like to have.
On 9/6/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/09/06, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
I can just imagine the writeup from Andrew Orlowski! The event doesn't have to have happened for me to be able to write it ...
Well how about an OAP camp? after a lot of OAPs have IP we would like to have.
Forgive my ignorance, but OAP?
I assume it's not this you mean: http://www.oaps.org/
-Andrew
On 06/09/06, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Well how about an OAP camp? after a lot of OAPs have IP we would like to have.
Forgive my ignorance, but OAP?
Old-age pensioner (UK term).
- d.
On Wed, September 6, 2006 15:23, David Gerard wrote:
Old-age pensioner (UK term).
Of course, to do such a thing in the UK, whether for under-18s or over-65s, would require everyone involved to be Criminal Records Bureau (ie Police) checked ...
I'm wondering whether some 'how to edit / improve your writing / fact-check and cite' articles could be validly added to one of our other projects as an on-line course rather than needing people to attend a single physical location (goo that might be it would be an expense that the target audience might have the wherewithall to spend)
Alison Wheeler
On 06/09/06, Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com wrote:
I'm wondering whether some 'how to edit / improve your writing / fact-check and cite' articles could be validly added to one of our other projects as an on-line course rather than needing people to attend a single physical location (goo that might be it would be an expense that the target audience might have the wherewithall to spend)
A how-to rather than a guideline or policy page? Could be good. Wikibooks?
- d.
On 9/6/06, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/09/06, Alison Wheeler wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com wrote:
I'm wondering whether some 'how to edit / improve your writing / fact-check and cite' articles could be validly added to one of our other projects as an on-line course rather than needing people to attend a single physical location (goo that might be it would be an expense that the target audience might have the wherewithall to spend)
A how-to rather than a guideline or policy page? Could be good. Wikibooks?
I think we have enough. People generly would rather contibute and learn from experence rather than read them. Anyway experences suggests that howto's that people want are "how to upload copyvio images without getting caught by orphan bot" and "how advertise your company".
On Wed, September 6, 2006 16:11, Alison Wheeler wrote:
(goo that might be it would be an expense that the target audience might have the wherewithall to spend)
um. what that was meant to say was "as that might be in would be an expense that the target audience might *not* have the wherewithall to spend"
/me sorts out fingers ...
Alison
On 9/6/06, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Also lets not forget that young people have much longer holidays than most people. I would think younger people are more likely to be able to attend and event a week before Wikimania.
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
I agree, that's why a session before Wikimania with maybe 12-16 folks would be an ideal start. If we're talking 50-100, then I agree - having to manage that many teenagers under one roof would be daunting. We'd need the help of an academic institution that has experience running a summer program or something similar.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
Andrew Lih wrote:
On 9/6/06, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Also lets not forget that young people have much longer holidays than most people. I would think younger people are more likely to be able to attend and event a week before Wikimania.
Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I think if we can partner with a group that has experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp" issues, then it would be great for us to provide the Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own however I think it would be too risky of a proposition.
I agree, that's why a session before Wikimania with maybe 12-16 folks would be an ideal start. If we're talking 50-100, then I agree - having to manage that many teenagers under one roof would be daunting. We'd need the help of an academic institution that has experience running a summer program or something similar.
The whole idea is intriguing, but there are major logistical problems. There is no doubt that we (or the youth themselves) could come up with an interesting programme. The small group that Andrew suggests may be as much as we can hope for in a first global level conference of this sort in the first year. After that such conferences could grow, or more regional events may prove more workable.
The youth who can travel half-way around the world to a conference without their parents are exceptional. Such travel is very costly, and most parents need to be reassured that their children will be perfectly safe before they give the children permission to travel.
Ec
My primary goal with this proposal is to stimulate knowledge building and training activities around Wikimedia. I will be upfront about my own beliefs: I do think that such training must be done in an age-appropriate way. I confess to being "ageist" in that I believe, on average, people are in different stages of personal development at different ages, and different generations have different ways of learning due to cultural influences alone.
That said, I also recognize that young people active in Wikimedia are often exceptional individuals. That's why I would like to draw on their creativity and ingenuity to get young people who are not yet Wikimedians interested in the project. Helping young people to educate young people is, in my opinion, not patronizing at all; it is a celebration of generational difference.
That said, a warning to the members of the younger generation: political correctness is one of the more questionable accomplishments of your parents. I started using and running bulletin board systems when I was 13 years old and attended and organized many meetings where I was the youngest member of the group. I've got my own stories to tell about age discrimination, but let's not get bogged down in age politics.
Instead, what I'd like to do is actively invite the young people in Wikimedia to work on a proposal and make it theirs. I think some opinion polling will be useful to gauge the direction such a project should take. I'll post more in the coming weeks, though I'd be equally happy if someone else -- young or old -- would pick up the idea and run with it.
As for the logistics of attending a Youth Event, I think decentralization will be key in the long run. But like Wikimania, it might be nice to have a single designated big event per year for those who can manage to attend. Each large event will, of course, also be very attractive for youths in the region where it takes place.
Erik Moeller wrote:
That said, a warning to the members of the younger generation: political correctness is one of the more questionable accomplishments of your parents. I started using and running bulletin board systems when I was 13 years old and attended and organized many meetings where I was the youngest member of the group. I've got my own stories to tell about age discrimination, but let's not get bogged down in age politics.
How far were you allowed to travel for this when you were 13?
Ec
On 9/7/06, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
How far were you allowed to travel for this when you were 13?
It was more a matter of "could" than "were allowed to". I was too much of a sissy to go on big journeys of my own (I've remedied that in the last few years), though I'm sure my parents would have encouraged me to and helped me along. Then again, I have wonderful parents.
I do feel that we need to support regional initiatives very much. Again, that does not preclude major, more centralized events.
On 9/6/06, Rory Stolzenberg rory096@gmail.com wrote:
As a 15 year old myself (as of 22 minutes ago, EST)
Happy birthday! :-)
I completely agree with geni. The best thing about being a 14 year old on Wikipedia is that nobody treats you as inferior or different, you can just be a member of the community. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageism.
As Andrew pointed out, a Youth Camp could be a good way for people of the same age to hang out and have fun. That doesn't mean that they aren't welcome at Wikimania, not at all. One other advantage of a YC is that you can get sponsorships and help from existing Youth Organizations all over the world.
I think we should ask the young members of the community if they are interested in such an event. I want to wait for some further comments in this discussion, but if there are none, I'll start a straw poll on Meta to gauge general interest.
On 06/09/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
I tend to feel that one of the major attractions of wikipedia to younger people is that we treat them like everyone else regardless of age.
Yes. And that being, e.g., an admin on en:wp only takes similar skills and cluefulness as being, say, a web forum moderator - there are 15 year olds who are great at the job and 40 year olds you wouldn't let near it under any circumstances. It's possible to be thoroughly meritocratic.
- d.
On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner than typical conference sessions. They could include:
- How to write really good articles?
- How to do research in libraries?
- What is this copyright stuff all about?
- My POV, your POV, NPOV?
- Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals
- Jimbo's campfire stories
- Write your own news with Wikinews
- Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you
- Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it
OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you get the idea. ;-)
Yes, I certainly get the idea...
The trouble is that this has the potential to be extremely patronising. There are considerable numbers of young Wikipedians (defined how, exactly? Under 18? Under 21? Under 25?) who have as good a grasp of the principles of Wikimedia as any adult members, even if, for various practical reasons, they are unable to play a significant role in the government of the Foundation as their adult counterparts. I can't see how you can avoid this kind of event becoming either a beginner's guide to Wikimedia (not something anyone committed enough to fork out several hundred quid needs) or a mini Wikimania. While an entirely admirable idea -- it's always good to reach out to members of the community in new ways -- I can't imagine how it could be practically made into a useful and productive event.
Sam Korn wrote:
I can't see how you can avoid this kind of event becoming either a beginner's guide to Wikimedia (not something anyone committed enough to fork out several hundred quid needs) or a mini Wikimania. While an entirely admirable idea -- it's always good to reach out to members of the community in new ways -- I can't imagine how it could be practically made into a useful and productive event.
Quit thinking of it as a "camp". The idea works much better if you think of it more as a "workshop".
*Make it open to all ages, not just "youth" *Keep it brief - no more than a couple hours *Hold it at a public facility, like a library or school *Cover the absolute fundamentals - basic wikisyntax, core policies, where to go for further help *Offer it for free or for a nominal fee *Have local chapters present it, or recruit a presenter from a local university, LUG, or free content group
Anything more than this is unnecessary complication, IMHO.
Jim Redmond [[en:User:Jredmond]]
On 06/09/06, Jim Redmond jim@scrubnugget.com wrote:
*Make it open to all ages, not just "youth" *Keep it brief - no more than a couple hours *Hold it at a public facility, like a library or school *Cover the absolute fundamentals - basic wikisyntax, core policies, where to go for further help *Offer it for free or for a nominal fee *Have local chapters present it, or recruit a presenter from a local university, LUG, or free content group
This'd be a great way to do a London meet as well. Free should be quite manageable if we can get the space free.
- d.
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