The fact-checked encyclopedia

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Anthony Cole

15 Apr 2018 15 Apr '18

12:53 p.m.

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Anthony Cole

15 Apr 15 Apr

12:55 p.m.

Link to a screen-shot of the ad: https://instagram.com/p/Bhl01fhhXHT/ On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 at 8:53 pm, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Anthony Cole

Peter Southwood

4:28 p.m.

That looks somewhat misleading. Who is making the claim? Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Cole Sent: 15 April 2018 14:56 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia Link to a screen-shot of the ad: https://instagram.com/p/Bhl01fhhXHT/ On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 at 8:53 pm, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com

Robert Fernandez

2:16 p.m.

Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and relevant claim these days. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking to wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We used to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more honest than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability and oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the discussion about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else uncomfortabe with this? -- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Leigh Thelmadatter

2:21 p.m.

Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to "outsiders" Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel ------ Original message------ From: Robert Fernandez Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Cc: Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and relevant claim these days. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Isaac Olatunde

2:39 p.m.

Leigh, I disagree that all projects are hostile to outsiders. When someone edit in a language they do not speak and use machine to translate contents for example and refused to stop after multiple warnings, a block in such case may not be considered an "hostile" response. That being said, I completely agree with Rob that fact-checked encyclopedia is more appropriate considering the hostility in some language Wikipedia, notably the English Wikipedia. How do you describe a Wikipedia where someone create their first article and got deleted and when the page creator approached the deleting admin on why their article got deleted and the response they received is "Kindly have the decency to create a decent article ", "count yourself lucky, I don't talk to IP address "? Regards, Isaac. On Apr 15, 2018 3:21 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter" <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more honest than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability and oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the discussion about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else uncomfortabe with this? -- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Anthony Cole

25 Apr 25 Apr

6:12 a.m.

That Google ad (describing Wikipedia as the fact-checked encyclopedia) is still the top result when I search for “wikipedia” in Australia. On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 at 8:57 pm, Isaac Olatunde <reachout2isaac(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel ------ Original message------ From: Robert Fernandez Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Cc: Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and relevant claim these days. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- Anthony Cole

Joseph Seddon

7 a.m.

Hey Anthony, Apologies for the delay on this. To the best of our knowledge, this ad isn't being run by the Wikimedia Foundation nor any vendor of the Wikimedia Foundation. Regards Seddon On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Leigh, I disagree that all projects are hostile to outsiders. When

someone

edit in a language they do not speak and use machine to translate

contents

for example and refused to stop after multiple warnings, a block in such case may not be considered an "hostile" response. That being said, I completely agree with Rob that fact-checked encyclopedia is more appropriate considering the hostility in some language Wikipedia, notably the English Wikipedia. How do you describe a Wikipedia where someone

create

their first article and got deleted and when the page creator approached the deleting admin on why their article got deleted and the response they received is "Kindly have the decency to create a decent article ", "count yourself lucky, I don't talk to IP address "? Regards, Isaac. On Apr 15, 2018 3:21 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter" <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

wrote: > > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking

> to > > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia.

used > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and > > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion

> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone

else

> > uncomfortabe with this? > > -- > > Anthony Cole > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Seddon *Community and Audience Engagement Associate* *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*

Anthony Cole

8:54 a.m.

Thanks Joseph. How weird. On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 at 3:01 pm, Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Leigh, I disagree that all projects are hostile to outsiders. When

someone

edit in a language they do not speak and use machine to translate

contents > for example and refused to stop after multiple warnings, a block in

such

> case may not be considered an "hostile" response. That being said, I > completely agree with Rob that fact-checked encyclopedia is more > appropriate considering the hostility in some language Wikipedia,

notably

the English Wikipedia. How do you describe a Wikipedia where someone

create > their first article and got deleted and when the page creator

approached

> the deleting admin on why their article got deleted and the response

they

> received is "Kindly have the decency to create a decent article ",

"count

yourself lucky, I don't talk to IP address "? Regards, Isaac. On Apr 15, 2018 3:21 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter" <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

wrote: > > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking

> to > > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia.

We > > used > > > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more > honest > > > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of

reliability

and > > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion

> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone

else > > > uncomfortabe with this? > > > -- > > > Anthony Cole > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Seddon *Community and Audience Engagement Associate* *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Anthony Cole

Michael Peel

11:52 a.m.

Maybe it’s by an affiliate (WMAU?). Presumably it has to be someone with permission to use the trademark, otherwise a request to google to turn it off should be made? Thanks, Mike

...

On 25 Apr 2018, at 05:54, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Joseph. How weird. On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 at 3:01 pm, Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

Leigh, I disagree that all projects are hostile to outsiders. When

someone

edit in a language they do not speak and use machine to translate

contents > for example and refused to stop after multiple warnings, a block in

such

notably

the English Wikipedia. How do you describe a Wikipedia where someone

create > their first article and got deleted and when the page creator

approached

> the deleting admin on why their article got deleted and the response

they

> received is "Kindly have the decency to create a decent article ",

"count

yourself lucky, I don't talk to IP address "? Regards, Isaac. On Apr 15, 2018 3:21 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter" <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to "outsiders" > Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons > > Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel > > ------ Original message------ > From: Robert Fernandez > Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; > Cc: > Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia > > Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, > organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English > Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone > can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and > relevant claim these days. > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking

> to >> wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia.

We >> used >>> to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more > honest >>> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of

reliability

and >> oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion

>> about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone

else >>> uncomfortabe with this? >>> -- >>> Anthony Cole >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Gnangarra

26 Apr 26 Apr

4:24 a.m.

Nothing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request. On 25 April 2018 at 19:52, Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:

...

Maybe it’s by an affiliate (WMAU?). Presumably it has to be someone with permission to use the trademark, otherwise a request to google to turn it off should be made? Thanks, Mike

On 25 Apr 2018, at 05:54, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote: Thanks Joseph. How weird. On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 at 3:01 pm, Joseph Seddon <jseddon(a)wikimedia.org>

wrote:

> Hey Anthony, > > Apologies for the delay on this. > > To the best of our knowledge, this ad isn't being run by the Wikimedia > Foundation nor any vendor of the Wikimedia Foundation. > > Regards > Seddon > > > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> >> That Google ad (describing Wikipedia as the fact-checked encyclopedia)

>> still the top result when I search for “wikipedia” in Australia. >> >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 at 8:57 pm, Isaac Olatunde <

reachout2isaac(a)gmail.com

>> >> wrote: >> >>> Leigh, I disagree that all projects are hostile to outsiders. When >> someone >>> edit in a language they do not speak and use machine to translate >> contents >>> for example and refused to stop after multiple warnings, a block in > such >>> case may not be considered an "hostile" response. That being said, I >>> completely agree with Rob that fact-checked encyclopedia is more >>> appropriate considering the hostility in some language Wikipedia, > notably >>> the English Wikipedia. How do you describe a Wikipedia where someone >> create >>> their first article and got deleted and when the page creator > approached >>> the deleting admin on why their article got deleted and the response > they >>> received is "Kindly have the decency to create a decent article ", > "count >>> yourself lucky, I don't talk to IP address "? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Isaac. >>> >>> >>> On Apr 15, 2018 3:21 PM, "Leigh Thelmadatter" <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to >>> "outsiders" >>>> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons >>>> >>>> Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel >>>> >>>> ------ Original message------ >>>> From: Robert Fernandez >>>> Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM >>>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; >>>> Cc: >>>> Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia >>>> >>>> Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, >>>> organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English >>>> Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone >>>> can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and >>>> relevant claim these days. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>>> I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad >> linking >>>> to >>>>> wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. >> We >>>> used >>>>> to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more >>> honest >>>>> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of > reliability >>> and >>>>> oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the >> discussion >>>>> about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone >> else >>>>> uncomfortabe with this? >>>>> -- >>>>> Anthony Cole >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ >> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- GN. Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order here <https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8> .

Gnangarra

4:43 a.m.

...

thing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request.

Jan Ainali

5:17 a.m.

Well, I guess Occam has it that a local Kmart store thought it was good to use a keyword that put them in the top of a fairiy common search result. Sneaky. Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali http://ainali.com 2018-04-26 6:43 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>om>:

...

thing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request.

-- G angarra . Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order here <https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again- reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8> . _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Samuel Klein

12:34 p.m.

Yea, looks like a K*mart ad. On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 2:55 AM Jan Ainali <jan(a)aina.li> wrote:

...

thing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request.

Anthony Cole

30 Apr 30 Apr

7:09 a.m.

It's still there. Still linking to a local Kmart store. I'll email legal and point them to this thread. On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 8:35 PM Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Yea, looks like a K*mart ad. On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 2:55 AM Jan Ainali <jan(a)aina.li> wrote:

Well, I guess Occam has it that a local Kmart store thought it was good

use a keyword that put them in the top of a fairiy common search result. Sneaky. Med vänliga hälsningar Jan Ainali http://ainali.com 2018-04-26 6:43 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>om>:

No > thing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request.

Anthony Cole

26 Apr 26 Apr

6:07 a.m.

Thank you Gnangarra. On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, 12:44 PM Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

thing to do with Wikimedia Australia, we have made no such request.

. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Paulo Santos Perneta

15 Apr 15 Apr

2:50 p.m.

Indeed. It's a very noticeable problem at the Wikipedia in Portuguese. During a workshop with librarians from the National Library last month, I was kind of shocked by the huge amount of semi-automated warnings they were receiving, some of them completely useless, as they were directed to code-editing rather than the Visual Editor they were using. The librarians were also puzzled by the apparently pointless aggressivity and hostility coming from the environment they were trying to join. On the other hand, content is now much more reliable than it used to be - there is even a movement at our local wikipedia which is working to completely eradicate unsourced articles from there. Even more, we kind of justify that hostility against newbies with the notion that the project is being actively protected and surveilled against vandalism and fake claims. So yes, I concur that "fact-checked encyclopedia" is more appropriated today than "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" - at pt.wiki as well. Paulo 2018-04-15 15:21 GMT+01:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com>om>:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Gerard Meijssen

18 Apr 18 Apr

8:58 a.m.

Hoi, The notion that unsourced articles need to be eradicated is fundamentally so wrong. The notion should be; we are going to source the unsourced articles and ensure that we provide the best information possible. Hostility only ensures that the point of view of the person who is hostile will dominate not that Wikipedia has a neutral point of view. Thanks, GerardM On 15 April 2018 at 16:50, Paulo Santos Perneta <paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

wrote:

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

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Anthony Cole

15 Apr 15 Apr

2:53 p.m.

To be clear, I’m not arguing we should resurrect “anyone can edit”. I’m wondering if this new slogan doesn’t run the risk of misleading readers wrt Wikipedia’s reliability. On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 at 10:21 pm, Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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-- Anthony Cole

Peter Southwood

4:35 p.m.

Both slogans/claims are not entirely wrong, but also both are highly misleading, and should not be used. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Cole Sent: 15 April 2018 16:54 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia To be clear, I’m not arguing we should resurrect “anyone can edit”. I’m wondering if this new slogan doesn’t run the risk of misleading readers wrt Wikipedia’s reliability. On Sun, 15 Apr 2018 at 10:21 pm, Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com

Vi to

3:31 p.m.

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a incircumstantial series of tirades. Vito 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com>om>:

...

I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Robert Fernandez

16 Apr 16 Apr

1:47 p.m.

...

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

> people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > > I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a incircumstantial > series of tirades. > > Vito > > 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com>om>: > >> Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to "outsiders" >> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons >> >> Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel >> >> ------ Original message------ >> From: Robert Fernandez >> Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; >> Cc: >> Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia >> >> Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, >> organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English >> Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone >> can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and >> relevant claim these days. >> >> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking >> to >> > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We >> used >> > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more honest >> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability and >> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the discussion >> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else >> > uncomfortabe with this? >> > -- >> > Anthony Cole >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Anthony Cole

17 Apr 17 Apr

12:09 a.m.

I just googled "wikipedia" again and that ad is still coming up. (I’m in Australia.) When you click the link in the ad it takes you (via 3 or 4 redirects) to wikipedia.org with the word "paid" in the search field. [1] When you click the Google maps link below the ad text it, strangely, takes you to the location of a suburban Kmart store. I'm finding it harder to believe this is sanctioned by WMF. Anyway, I’d appreciate it if someone from the WMF could chime in on this. 1. https://instagram.com/p/BhpnGuehzhw/ On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 at 9:48 pm, Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

> people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > > I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a incircumstantial

series of tirades. Vito 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com>om>: > Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons > > Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel > > ------ Original message------ > From: Robert Fernandez > Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; > Cc: > Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia > > Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, > organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English > Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone > can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and > relevant claim these days. > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking

> to > > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We > used > > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and

> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion

> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else > > uncomfortabe with this? > > -- > > Anthony Cole > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- Anthony Cole

Philippe Beaudette

12:15 a.m.

I suspect that the ad in question is a freebie, donated through Google's giveaway to nonprofits. If so there is a point person at wmf (maybe in the advancement team?) Who would know for sure. Philippe On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 5:10 PM Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil

> people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > > I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a incircumstantial

series of tirades. Vito 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com>om>: > Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to

"outsiders"

wrote:

> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking >> to >> > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia.

> used > > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest >> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of

reliability

and

> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion >> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone

else

>> > uncomfortabe with this? >> > -- >> > Anthony Cole >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Philippe Beaudette philippe(a)beaudette.me

Joseph Seddon

12:22 a.m.

Hey Anthony. These emails came in on a weekend and today is a WMF holiday so I suspect it'll be another 24 hours or so before a response will get to you :) Regards Seddon On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:15 AM, Philippe Beaudette <philippe(a)beaudette.me> wrote:

...

[1]

When you click the Google maps link below the ad text it, strangely,

takes

you to the location of a suburban Kmart store. I'm finding it harder to believe this is sanctioned by WMF. Anyway, I’d appreciate it if someone from the WMF could chime in on this. 1. https://instagram.com/p/BhpnGuehzhw/ On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 at 9:48 pm, Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com wrote: > > "🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil > people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > > I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1. > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com>

wrote:

"🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a

incircumstantial > series of tirades. > > Vito > > 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com

: > > > >> Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to > "outsiders" > >> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons > >> > >> Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel > >> > >> ------ Original message------ > >> From: Robert Fernandez > >> Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM > >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; > >> Cc: > >> Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia > >> > >> Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, > >> organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English > >> Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone > >> can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and > >> relevant claim these days. > >> > >> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad > linking > >> to > >> > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked

encyclopedia.

> used > > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest >> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of

reliability

and

> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion >> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone

else

>> > uncomfortabe with this? >> > -- >> > Anthony Cole >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ >> wiki/Wikimedia-l >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> > Unsubscribe:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe>

> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe>

> >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/

> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

, > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=

unsubscribe>

> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/

mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

-- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Philippe Beaudette philippe(a)beaudette.me _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Anthony Cole

8:34 a.m.

Thank you, Philippe and Joseph. On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 at 8:22 am, Joseph Seddon <josephseddon(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

wrote:

I suspect that the ad in question is a freebie, donated through Google's giveaway to nonprofits. If so there is a point person at wmf (maybe in

the > advancement team?) Who would know for sure.

> Philippe

> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 5:10 PM Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

> > I just googled "wikipedia" again and that ad is still coming up. (I’m in > > Australia.) When you click the link in the ad it takes you (via 3 or 4 > > redirects) to wikipedia.org with the word "paid" in the search field. > [1] > > When you click the Google maps link below the ad text it, strangely, > takes > > you to the location of a suburban Kmart store. I'm finding it harder to > > believe this is sanctioned by WMF. Anyway, I’d appreciate it if someone > > from the WMF could chime in on this. >

> > 1. https://instagram.com/p/BhpnGuehzhw/ >

> > On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 at 9:48 pm, Robert Fernandez < wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com >

> > wrote: >

> > > > "🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil > > > people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > >

> > > I think we should change this to our slogan just for April 1. > >

> > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > "🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥The encyclopedia of evil people, by evil people, for evil > > > > people 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥" + a winking Baphomet as logo > > >

> > > > I find close to pointless derailing any discussion into a > > > incircumstantial > > > > series of tirades. > > >

> > > > Vito > > >

> > > > 2018-04-15 16:21 GMT+02:00 Leigh Thelmadatter < osamadre(a)hotmail.com > >: > > >

> > > >> Not just English Wikipedia. All of the projects are hostile to > > > "outsiders" > > > >> Those not in English might even be worse for several reasons > > > >> > > > >> Enviado desde mi LG de Telcel > > > >> > > > >> ------ Original message------ > > > >> From: Robert Fernandez > > > >> Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2018 9:17 AM > > > >> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; > > > >> Cc: > > > >> Subject:Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia > > > >> > > > >> Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, > > > >> organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English > > > >> Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone

> > >> can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and > > >> relevant claim these days. > > >> > > >> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <

ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com>

> wrote: > >> > I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad > linking > >> to > >> > wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked

encyclopedia. > We > > >> used > > >> > to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems

> > honest > > >> > than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of > reliability > > and > > >> > oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the > > discussion > > >> > about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is

anyone > > else > > > >> > uncomfortabe with this? > > > >> > -- > > > >> > Anthony Cole > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > , > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject= > unsubscribe> > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > >

> > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

> > -- > > Anthony Cole > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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-- Anthony Cole

Peter Southwood

15 Apr 15 Apr

4:33 p.m.

Anyone with internet can edit it, but not necessarily for long if they do it badly, and it is not easy to do it well. Some of the facts are checked some of the time by some of the people, some of whom are competent to do so. "The fact-checked encyclopedia " is not entirely wrong. Misleading though. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Robert Fernandez Sent: 15 April 2018 16:16 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia Considering the barriers to entry, growing thicket of policies, organized group harassment, and open hostility on the English Wikipedia, I'm not sure we can even call it "the encyclopedia anyone can edit" anymore. So I'd say fact-checked is a more accurate and relevant claim these days. On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Amir E. Aharoni

3:35 p.m.

I'd just stick to "The Free Encyclopedia". It's a thing we can really agree upon. (We can, right? Please tell me we can.) But I am curious - who made this ad? בתאריך יום א׳, 15 באפר׳ 2018, 15:54, מאת Anthony Cole ‏<ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com

...

James Salsman

4:10 p.m.

If we want to do fact checking, which we do whether Congress has decided publishers are responsible for the content of their publications or not, the way to automate it is shown at https://priyankamandikal.github.io/posts/gsoc-2016-project-overview/ Best regards, Jim On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

...

Peter Southwood

4:42 p.m.

I would like to try that but could not work out what to do from the link Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of James Salsman Sent: 15 April 2018 18:11 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia If we want to do fact checking, which we do whether Congress has decided publishers are responsible for the content of their publications or not, the way to automate it is shown at https://priyankamandikal.github.io/posts/gsoc-2016-project-overview/ Best regards, Jim On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

...

Jane Darnell

4:47 p.m.

I just tried googling Wikipedia and am not seeing that result at all. I see " *Wikipedia* is a free online encyclopedia, created and edited by volunteers around the world and hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation." When I do the same search on mobile, I see the same thing, except this time it is accompanied by the Dutch version, which I personally find very cute, and very Dutch. Consider it the "Eeyore version of explaining free knowlege". On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 6:42 PM, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:

...

I'd just stick to "The Free Encyclopedia". It's a thing we can really

agree

upon. (We can, right? Please tell me we can.) But I am curious - who made this ad? בתאריך יום א׳, 15 באפר׳ 2018, 15:54, מאת Anthony Cole ‏<

ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com

> I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad linking

> wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

> to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and

oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the discussion about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else uncomfortabe with this? -- Anthony Cole _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/

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New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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Samuel Klein

6:20 p.m.

There will always be a use for a fact-checked online encyclopedia. https://everything2.com/title/The+Everything+credibility+problem On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'd just stick to "The Free Encyclopedia". It's a thing we can really

agree

upon. (We can, right? Please tell me we can.) But I am curious - who made this ad? בתאריך יום א׳, 15 באפר׳ 2018, 15:54, מאת Anthony Cole ‏<

ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com >>: > >> I just googled “wikipedia” and the first result was a Google ad

linking

> wikipedia.org.[1] It calls Wikipedia the fact-checked encyclopedia. We

used

> to call it the encyclopedia anyone can edit. The latter seems more

honest

> than this new formulation which to me implies a degree of reliability

and >> oversight I'm not sure we can ethically assert. I missed the

discussion

>> about this new self-description. Did it happen on meta? Is anyone else >> uncomfortabe with this? >> -- >> Anthony Cole >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/

wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l

New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266

Peter Southwood

4:36 p.m.

Looks good to me. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Amir E. Aharoni Sent: 15 April 2018 17:35 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The fact-checked encyclopedia I'd just stick to "The Free Encyclopedia". It's a thing we can really agree upon. (We can, right? Please tell me we can.) But I am curious - who made this ad? בתאריך יום א׳, 15 באפר׳ 2018, 15:54, מאת Anthony Cole ‏<ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com

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participants (18)

Amir E. Aharoni
Anthony Cole
Gerard Meijssen
Gnangarra
Isaac Olatunde
James Salsman
Jan Ainali
Jane Darnell
Joseph Seddon
Joseph Seddon
Leigh Thelmadatter
Michael Peel
Paulo Santos Perneta
Peter Southwood
Philippe Beaudette
Robert Fernandez
Samuel Klein
Vi to