Hello all,
(translation, original text below)
I am something irritated by some suggestions on meta regarding the international structure of Wikimedia. There are made suggestions, aligning local Chapter at a language, instead of aligning at a country, for example Wikimedia Francophone and Wikipedia Esperanto. IMHO that is the wrong way. Please look at other international non profit organizations how they do that.
The following points are important to me:
* There should be as clear as possible a separation between projects and chapters because all projects are international and should remain widely self-determined.
* Chapters should not primarily spend their money for projects in a certain language but on all projects, as far as legally possible.
* There should be no sub-chapters on national level (i.e. Wikimedia Austria as a sub-chapter of Wikimedia Germany). Each national chapter should be directly assigned to the Foundation. Exceptions could be meaningful for regional chapters, which could be subordinated to the national chapters.
The bylaws of Wikimedia Germany consider these principles. I would be glad, if future chapters would do this likewise.
We should create an international organization to promote *together* all international projects and not create an accumulation of single organizations, which primarily promote "their" projects.
-akl
Original text (german):
Ich bin etwas irritiert über einige Vorschläge auf meta in Bezug auf die internationale Wikimedia-Struktur. Dort werden Vorschläge gemacht, lokale Chapter an einer Sprache, statt an einem Land auszurichten, zum Beispiel Wikimedia Francophone und Wikipedia Esperanto. IMHO ist das der falsche Weg. Bitte schaut Euch mal andere internationale non-profit-Organisationen an, wie die das machen.
Folgende Punkte sind mir wichtig:
* Es sollte eine möglichst klare Trennung zwischen Projekten und Chaptern geben, weil alle Projekte international sind und weitgehend selbstbestimmt bleiben sollten.
* Chapter sollten ihr Geld nicht primär für Projekte in einer bestimmten Sprache ausgeben sondern möglichst für alle Projekte, soweit wie rechtlich möglich.
* Es sollte keine Sub-Chapter auf nationaler Ebene geben. Jedes Chapter sollte direkt der Foundation zugeordnet sein. Ausnahmen könnten sinnvoll sein für regionale Chapter, die dem jeweilgen nationalen Chapter untergeordnet werden könnten.
Die Satzung von Wikimedia Deutschland beachtet diese Grundsätze. Ich wäre froh, wenn zukünftige Chapter dies ebenfalls machen würden.
Wir sollten eine internationale Organisation schaffen, um *zusammen* alle internationalen Projekte zu fördern und keine Ansammlung von Einzelorganisationen schaffen, die primär "ihre" Projekte fördern.
-akl
Arne Klempert wrote:
I am something irritated by some suggestions on meta regarding the international structure of Wikimedia. There are made suggestions, aligning local Chapter at a language, instead of aligning at a country, for example Wikimedia Francophone and Wikipedia Esperanto. IMHO that is the wrong way. Please look at other international non profit organizations how they do that.
I agree with this---local chapters should be for reasons of local convenience, particularly legal issues like tax-deductability of donations, ease of fundraising and local advertising, and so on. Making them language-based doesn't really address this, except for the people who happen to be in the country the foundation is based in. This shouldn't be language-based---an English-speaking German should be able to join the German Wikimedia branch and continue to work primarily or exclusively at en: if he or she desires; a German-speaking American should likewise be able to join the US Wikimedia branch and continue to work primarily or exclusively at de:. Language-type issues should be done on the Wikimedia Foundation level---the international organization. Perhaps language-coordination working groups could be set up within it, but there's no good reason I can see to tie these to national foundations of a particular country. Another disadvantage of that approach is that those in smaller countries are more discriminated against---why should a German-speaking person from Switzerland have to "report to" a foreign Wikimedia branch in Germany, for example?
-Mark
--- Arne Klempert wikipedia@klempert.de wrote:
I am something irritated by some suggestions on meta regarding the international structure of Wikimedia. There are made suggestions, aligning local Chapter at a language, instead of aligning at a country, for example Wikimedia Francophone and Wikipedia Esperanto. IMHO that is the wrong way. Please look at other international non profit organizations how they do that.
I very much agree with this.
Anybody who wants to participate in a local chapter should be able to. The only limitation is the amount of travel the person is able/willing to do. Thus local chapters should serve *nations* not languages.
The following points are important to me:
- There should be as clear as possible a separation between projects and
chapters because all projects are international and should remain widely self-determined.
- Chapters should not primarily spend their money for projects in a
certain language but on all projects, as far as legally possible.
- There should be no sub-chapters on national level (i.e. Wikimedia
Austria as a sub-chapter of Wikimedia Germany). Each national chapter should be directly assigned to the Foundation. Exceptions could be meaningful for regional chapters, which could be subordinated to the national chapters.
The bylaws of Wikimedia Germany consider these principles. I would be glad, if future chapters would do this likewise.
We should create an international organization to promote *together* all international projects and not create an accumulation of single organizations, which primarily promote "their" projects.
Wow! I'm very impressed with the amount of thought that went into Wikimedia Germany's bylaws. The above points seem to be very important and logical. I suggest a Wikimedia board committee look at the Wikimedia Germany's bylaws in detail and form some basic principles upon which all future chapters are organized (each chapter would write its own bylaws but those bylaws would have to be ratified by the Wikimedia Foundation's board which in turn would use a set of principles to guide them). I for one would like to form a regional chapter of the as-yet-to-be-created Wikimedia United States chapter.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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On Monday, June 21, 2004 9:07 PM Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Arne Klempert wikipedia@klempert.de wrote:
The following points are important to me:
- There should be as clear as possible a separation between projects
and chapters because all projects are international and should remain widely self-determined.
- Chapters should not primarily spend their money for projects in a
certain language but on all projects, as far as legally possible.
- There should be no sub-chapters on national level (i.e. Wikimedia
Austria as a sub-chapter of Wikimedia Germany). Each national chapter should be directly assigned to the Foundation. Exceptions could be meaningful for regional chapters, which could be subordinated to the national chapters.
The bylaws of Wikimedia Germany consider these principles. I would be glad, if future chapters would do this likewise.
We should create an international organization to promote *together* all international projects and not create an accumulation of single organizations, which primarily promote "their" projects.
Wow! I'm very impressed with the amount of thought that went into Wikimedia Germany's bylaws.
Thank you. We discussed the bylaws for about six months, but the principles above seemed so important and logical to all people involved in the preparation for Wikimedia Germany, that we didn't need to discuss them at all.
An English translation of the German bylaws can be found here (still in progress): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vereinssatzung/Englisch
-akl
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org