Indeed George I agree with everything you have said about the internal effects of lack of transparency and openness. Assuming I and other board members who continue to press for full openness about the James situation are eventually successful this will all become more clear.
Sent from my Samsung device
-------- Original message -------- From: George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com Date: 2016/03/10 9:49 AM (GMT+00:00) To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: A conversation?
On Mar 10, 2016, at 1:25 AM, Jimmy Wales jimmywales@wikia-inc.com wrote: ... Those ideas never got traction and never made it to the board level. ...
I don't think you are lying or being deceptive, but it seems apparent in the various half-explanations that it did, to James, who either got mangled explanations and assumed worse or heard worse from someone incorrectly. Thence to mistrust.
Assuming nobody is evil or insane, we have clear evidence and now open admissions of communications breakdowns at several levels and confused, contradictory explanations about who thought what secrecy was required and why.
It seems like those fed upon each other into misunderstandings and mistrust.
Have you not considered that lack of transparency and openness would have the same internal effect as external?
George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
...this is about that mail of yours to James that was going to be published, right?
On 10 March 2016 at 11:01, jimmy wales jimmywales@ymail.com wrote:
Indeed George I agree with everything you have said about the internal effects of lack of transparency and openness. Assuming I and other board members who continue to press for full openness about the James situation are eventually successful this will all become more clear.
Sent from my Samsung device
-------- Original message -------- From: George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com Date: 2016/03/10 9:49 AM (GMT+00:00) To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: A conversation?
On Mar 10, 2016, at 1:25 AM, Jimmy Wales jimmywales@wikia-inc.com
wrote:
... Those ideas never got traction and never made it to the board level. ...
I don't think you are lying or being deceptive, but it seems apparent in the various half-explanations that it did, to James, who either got mangled explanations and assumed worse or heard worse from someone incorrectly. Thence to mistrust.
Assuming nobody is evil or insane, we have clear evidence and now open admissions of communications breakdowns at several levels and confused, contradictory explanations about who thought what secrecy was required and why.
It seems like those fed upon each other into misunderstandings and mistrust.
Have you not considered that lack of transparency and openness would have the same internal effect as external?
George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Jimmy, your ymail is still going into my gmail spam.
It's time you released that email Sarah reminded you about, above.
I agree with Oliver's characterisation of your tone in that email to Peter and James. I'm very disappointed to see Erik putting down Pete for exposing the gargoyle behind the mask, rather than nailing you for the insulting salvo you launched at James, in secret, where you thought no one would ever know; and suggesting we all just calm down and leave the resolution to the chair and a professional mediator. As if.
Per others above and me elsewhere, [1] please vacate the "founder's seat" now, and run for a community seat at the next community selection.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_202#Your_role_as...
Anthony Cole
On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Michel Vuijlsteke wikipedia@zog.org wrote:
...this is about that mail of yours to James that was going to be published, right?
On 10 March 2016 at 11:01, jimmy wales jimmywales@ymail.com wrote:
Indeed George I agree with everything you have said about the internal effects of lack of transparency and openness. Assuming I and other board members who continue to press for full openness about the James situation are eventually successful this will all become more clear.
Sent from my Samsung device
-------- Original message -------- From: George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com Date: 2016/03/10 9:49 AM (GMT+00:00) To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: A conversation?
On Mar 10, 2016, at 1:25 AM, Jimmy Wales jimmywales@wikia-inc.com
wrote:
... Those ideas never got traction and never made it to the board level. ...
I don't think you are lying or being deceptive, but it seems apparent in the various half-explanations that it did, to James, who either got
mangled
explanations and assumed worse or heard worse from someone incorrectly. Thence to mistrust.
Assuming nobody is evil or insane, we have clear evidence and now open admissions of communications breakdowns at several levels and confused, contradictory explanations about who thought what secrecy was required
and
why.
It seems like those fed upon each other into misunderstandings and mistrust.
Have you not considered that lack of transparency and openness would have the same internal effect as external?
George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Mar 10, 2016, at 2:01 AM, jimmy wales jimmywales@ymail.com wrote:
Indeed George I agree with everything you have said about the internal effects of lack of transparency and openness. Assuming I and other board members who continue to press for full openness about the James situation are eventually successful this will all become more clear.
This situation - the lack of full openness and an OK for everyone to publicly discuss what they saw and believed happening - is incredibly damaging to the Foundation and movement by now.
The tension expressed with Board needs to keep some things confidential is real. But...
I would go so far as to state that it appears to me. that Board members' fiduciary duty to the Foundation now argues for open disclosure, and is clearly and straightforwardly at odds with the Boards' current secrecy.
I understand that opinions and dynamics within the board are important, but your individual responsibilities are now becoming directly relevant. I urge the board to resolve your internal obstacles to the openness swiftly. If you cannot do so, your fiduciary duty must guide you.
George William Herbert Sent from my iPhone
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org