What if we had multiple events. For example;
Wikimania: The World Wikimedia Conference Wikiconferences:The Chapter Convention
thoughts?
----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Snow wikipedia@verizon.net To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:57:53 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] A Wikimania for everyone?
Every Wikimania bid has strengths and weaknesses. Once a bid is chosen, the ritual of criticizing the selection by focusing on some weakness seems to have become inevitable. I would be more impressed to reconsider the jury's selection if somebody presented a serious evaluation that reached a different result after weighing all the issues, instead of harping on only the one most favorable to the argument.
Since that is not yet forthcoming, I'd like to refocus the discussion on the concept of Wikimania in general, since it seems to produce so much debate. As an idea, Wikimania is being pulled in too many directions, and it cannot be all things to all people. Supposing we have a consensus that in the most basic sense it's a good idea (do we have that?), what can we make of this idea? What kind of event should it be? What values do we prioritize - intimacy, mass appeal, accessibility, outreach, infrastructure, culture? Others that I haven't listed? If we care about diversity, what is that? When we consider costs, whose costs do we mean? How do we balance the competing considerations?
Currently the conference is planned for roughly 400 people. So far I'm not aware of any location having difficulty attracting attendees. The argument for catering to the highest concentrations of contributors would be more appealing if coupled with the idea that it makes sense to accommodate more people. But expanding Wikimania would change other dynamics of accessibility - the type of facility used, individual costs and overall conference expenses, the character of the event. At least so far, nobody has been presenting this as a vision for Wikimania's future.
Another consideration is that admission fees have consciously been kept low. Otherwise Wikimania doesn't make Wikimedia contributors a priority - at least, not the kind of contributors I gather everyone is referring to here. For any location most people already face costs related to attendance, it's simply impossible to physically bring Wikimania to everyone. Realistically, for any one person, Wikimania may be close enough for you to come at minimal cost once or twice in your lifetime. Some people may have to use a broad interpretation of "minimal" for even that.
Geographic proximity only goes so far in any case. Talking about Europe and North America may sound as if that still leaves a vast range of options. In the first place, this would be more persuasive if we saw a larger number of cities bidding. When it's just one from each, the chances of producing a bid superior to a highly-motivated team from, say, South America are not exactly overwhelming. Furthermore, even if this was the very highest consideration, it's not exactly neutral between those. The varying population distributions and distances, especially for North America, would have obvious logical consequences. Basically, we should prefer any bid from the European core (defined by London on the west, Rome on the south, Berlin or Rome on the east, Berlin or Amsterdam on the north); the east coast of North America would be a secondary option (maybe we could disqualify Europe every third year); by comparison, the odds for the rest of North America would be decidedly inferior (after ten or so years, we might make it to Chicago or Los Angeles).
Wikimania could be bigger or smaller, reach the developing world or only the already-developed, more expensive or less so, rotated widely or narrowly. Leaving aside the security concerns specific to Alexandria, the choice of options would have the following undesirable consequences, depending on which course is taken: *Complaints that the event is impersonal, lacks a sense of community, or is merely a stage-managed public relations show *After a cycle or two, it seems to be pretty much just the same group of people getting together every few years *Objections that the amount being spent is a poor use of foundation funds (depending on how it works out, this would be about either the size of the event or the travel costs incurred by the foundation itself, making distance from San Francisco a factor) *Inability to accommodate anyone beyond the local audience, thus being hardly different from a random meetup and failing to reflect the diverse character of Wikimedia participants *Rumors and misperceptions of unfairness in timing of when registration is opened or how tickets are allocated *Outrage over high admission charges, resembling more closely a "professional" conference
I would like to understand what vision people have for Wikimania, and see how their vision would deal with all of these issues. So far I have heard only complaints and rebuttals, nobody offering their own vision (on this list, at least). I fear an end result of the fights over this would be to either abandon the idea of Wikimania, or simply to hold it in the Moscone Center every year like Macworld. Before we get there, let's hear some better alternatives.
--Michael Snow
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Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
What if we had multiple events. For example;
Wikimania: The World Wikimedia Conference Wikiconferences:The Chapter Convention
thoughts?
Well, the Wikimedia Foundation and the individual chapters have already been doing Wikipedia Academy programs. (Maybe I should say the chapters and the foundation, since the initiative really started with the chapters.) That sounds like it's getting close to what you're describing.
--Michael Snow
Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
What if we had multiple events. For example;
Wikimania: The World Wikimedia Conference Wikiconferences:The Chapter Convention
thoughts?
This is already happening in some countries, but it really depends on people on site to get things organized. Granted it's easier for a small countries like Serbia or the Netherlands where no-one really has to travel very far.
For now there is an understanding that Wikimania takes place in July or August, so that leaves plenty of calender for everyone else. It's conceivable that Wikimania could take place at another time of year to take advantage of lower off-peak travel costs, but others might find this an impossible time of year for distant travel. Regional or local conferences don't require long travel time, and can easily be run on a long weekend.
Ec
Yes, especially in Europe there are many initiatives like this. I recall Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, France, Italy, Poland (Sweden?, Russia?), Israel and Serbia, but also in Atlanta there was an initiative (not sure of the status).
It all depends on how enthousiastic people are, and how much time they are willing to invest. And it will most likely not be similar to Wikimania, but if you include "outsiders" it is very well possible to target up to 150, 200 even in the Netherlands. Generally these conferences are one or two days, but I heard about events (in Poland for example) of three days too.
Mvg, Lodewijk
2008/3/31, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net:
Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
What if we had multiple events. For example;
Wikimania: The World Wikimedia Conference Wikiconferences:The Chapter Convention
thoughts?
This is already happening in some countries, but it really depends on people on site to get things organized. Granted it's easier for a small countries like Serbia or the Netherlands where no-one really has to travel very far.
For now there is an understanding that Wikimania takes place in July or August, so that leaves plenty of calender for everyone else. It's conceivable that Wikimania could take place at another time of year to take advantage of lower off-peak travel costs, but others might find this an impossible time of year for distant travel. Regional or local conferences don't require long travel time, and can easily be run on a long weekend.
Ec
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Practically everything related to Wikimedia produces a lot of debate. Even the composition of the jury has been challenged - though no one has objected to Buenos Aires directly (although one writer mentioned that it is equivalently far away as Antarctica for him). I think we should thank the jury for the work they do and refrain from challenging the decisions using arguments that do not include a critical analysis of the bids and process. The question of jury "accountability" seems like a non-starter - if they were selected by Cary or the Board -- well, that is their job, lets let them do it.
The limit on Wikimanias is financial and logistical - as (and if) the Foundation earns more funds it will become feasible to hold more Wikimania events - although at that point we need to have a discussion about the utility of these events in relation to the goals of the Foundation. All other efforts being funded sufficiently I think it would be great to have frequent Wikimanias all around the world - in a perfect world, one on each inhabited continent each year.
Clearly the English Wikipedia is the largest project, and it draws its editors and readers primarily (but by no means exclusively) from the English speaking world. Still - en.wiki is obviously not the limit of the Foundation's efforts, and it is the least in need of an event like Wikimania to support it. Given that... It makes sense to entertain bids from around the world without undue regard for locations in Europe or North America. To those who object that using Wikimania to promote Wikimedia projects and efforts is a misuse of the event... I can't disagree more. If the Foundation is going to allocate funds to Wikimania as a major annual expenditure, then those funds should be in support of the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation - and not venues for "celebration" by the current contributors of two continents.
That leads into the idea of Wikimania as a "user event." I can see how it would have developed that way - many online communities have community oriented meetups that have very little to do with the outside public and are located conveniently to community members or event organizers. Of course Wikimedia is much more than an online community, and the friendly community-oriented aspects of a Wikimania event should be secondary to its efforts towards collaboration, education and public relations.
Nathan
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Practically everything related to Wikimedia produces a lot of debate.
True; and debate can be productive. We should harness that interest and energy into constructive work to lay the groundwork for joyful events, and discussion about what makes a successful gathering.
Even the composition of the jury has been challenged - though no one has objected to Buenos Aires directly (although one writer mentioned that it is equivalently far away as Antarctica for him). I think we should thank the jury for the work they do and refrain from challenging the decisions using arguments that do not include a critical analysis of the bids and process.
Suggesting that the process rely more on questions, assessments, and discussion from the community at large is certainly relevant. There were not many discussions about criteria or questions from the wider community during the bid process; and many more voices tend to speak up after each Wikimania and after a selection. The basic interest in improving the process is there, but it isn't being realized; if people who care about a topic don't use the right forum to discuss it, the discussion space is not truly open. (Perhaps publicity or presentation could be better targeted so that the community feels the shared ownership of review and selection.)
The limit on Wikimanias is financial and logistical - as (and if) the
Foundation earns more funds it will become feasible to hold more Wikimania events - although at that point we need to have a discussion about the utility of these events in relation to the goals of the Foundation. All other efforts being funded sufficiently I think it would be great to have frequent Wikimanias all around the world - in a perfect world, one on each inhabited continent each year.
Logistical, perhaps -- though if more people take up the meme of throwing regional events, and come to see that as an exciting and viable project, more of the talented local organizers may choose to do it. But financial? If there are 10,000 people who would like to attend some similar gathering each year, and only 10-15% of them currently do, there is an ample pool of talent, resources, and attendee-driven funding to organize a number of events. (One might just as well suggest that BarCamps are limited by O'Reilly's financial resources...)
If the Foundation is going to allocate funds to Wikimania as a major
annual expenditure, then those funds should be in support of the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation - and not venues for "celebration" by the current contributors of two continents.
Does the Foundation plan on allocating Wikimania funds as a major annual expenditure? My understanding is that past Wikimanias have been basically self-supporting, with the Foundation acting as a conduit for some related sponsorships (which certainly incurs overhead costs) and supporting travel for staff and board members.
As a frequently-cited point of comparison, consider the World Science Fiction Society's WorldCons -- each large event has a bid team that is chosen two years out, and every team is its own independent organization that exists to put on a major gathering, organize its own logistics and finances, and wind down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldcon
SJ
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