Hello everybody!
On 11/13 last year the formation of a subcommittee concerning the approval of wikis in new languages etc. was announced on this list.
Back then, I was pleased to see that a few users committed themselves to taking care of multilingualism issues in Wikimedia's projects.
Today, I am disappointed to see that the committee is inoperable.
It is a pitiful fact that since its creation the language subcommittee has achieved virtually *zero *as to the advancement of multilingualism (which is a central pillar in Wikimedia's mission to spread knowledge worldwide).
Even without counting the huge number of requests for new languages the subcommittee simply swept away upon its formation, despite the fact that some of them had previously been approved by the Community (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_requests_for_new_languages), requests are just piling up big time and nothing ever happens (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages).
One of the main arguments in favor of having a small group of specialized people instead of the whole community decide certain things would be to make things run more efficiently, in other words: speedier. Yet what's really happening is exactly the opposite: we're about to see *the longest period without a single new Wikipedia ever!!* ** What has happened?
Has the number of requests for new languages dropped significantly? - Not really. Wikipedia's reputation around the world is steadily rising and more and more people from various regions of the globe want to start an edition in their own language (but we don't let them).
Are the requests sloppier than they used to be? - Quite the contrary! The quality of most requests is higher than ever before (just have a look at how requests looked three years ago, let alone the Incubator activities) and editors are now preparing new editions with a lot of conscientiousness (yet we don't value that).
So what *is *the reason for this total deadlock? In plain words, I would say it is *a language subcommittee not caring enough *about our fellow users who want to increase the value of Wikimedia's projects and help us on our mission for free knowledge by providing content in additional languages. What good is a language committee that never ever enables new languages?
What do I mean by "not caring enough"? - I mean that obviously the subcommittee or most of its members 1. seem to applying the (all-in-all sensible) rules they set up too morosley (i. e. not for the benefit of but rather against multilinguistic progress) and 2. seem to be failing in adequately supporting people who want to start new wikis. Because if it weren't that way highly promising projects like the e. g. Kabyle, Sakha or Crimean Tatar Wikipedias would long be up and running and would be valuable new members of the Wikimedia family of projects by now.
What's even worse is that the subcommittee members themselves don't agree on which rules are in force (cf. http://langcom.wikimedia.org/wiki/Archives/2007-03-23). Pathoschild holds that full localization is not mandatory before final approval (and luckily he still seems to remember what Wikipedia is all about and that we're supposed to be an open project, even to those who don't happen to have a computer science diploma), Berto d'Sera takes a "localization or death" stand and GerardM writes something secret.
Dear Language Subcommittee Members, please stop preventing multilingualism and start enabling and supporting it!
Thank y'all for taking the time to read this!
Arbeo
On 25/03/07, Arbeo M arbeo.wiki@googlemail.com wrote:
Hello everybody!
On 11/13 last year the formation of a subcommittee concerning the approval of wikis in new languages etc. was announced on this list.
Back then, I was pleased to see that a few users committed themselves to taking care of multilingualism issues in Wikimedia's projects.
Today, I am disappointed to see that the committee is inoperable.
It is a pitiful fact that since its creation the language subcommittee has achieved virtually *zero *as to the advancement of multilingualism (which is a central pillar in Wikimedia's mission to spread knowledge worldwide).
Even without counting the huge number of requests for new languages the subcommittee simply swept away upon its formation, despite the fact that some of them had previously been approved by the Community (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_requests_for_new_languages), requests are just piling up big time and nothing ever happens (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages).
One of the main arguments in favor of having a small group of specialized people instead of the whole community decide certain things would be to make things run more efficiently, in other words: speedier. Yet what's really happening is exactly the opposite: we're about to see *the longest period without a single new Wikipedia ever!!* ** What has happened?
Has the number of requests for new languages dropped significantly? - Not really. Wikipedia's reputation around the world is steadily rising and more and more people from various regions of the globe want to start an edition in their own language (but we don't let them).
Are the requests sloppier than they used to be? - Quite the contrary! The quality of most requests is higher than ever before (just have a look at how requests looked three years ago, let alone the Incubator activities) and editors are now preparing new editions with a lot of conscientiousness (yet we don't value that).
So what *is *the reason for this total deadlock? In plain words, I would say it is *a language subcommittee not caring enough *about our fellow users who want to increase the value of Wikimedia's projects and help us on our mission for free knowledge by providing content in additional languages. What good is a language committee that never ever enables new languages?
What do I mean by "not caring enough"? - I mean that obviously the subcommittee or most of its members 1. seem to applying the (all-in-all sensible) rules they set up too morosley (i. e. not for the benefit of but rather against multilinguistic progress) and 2. seem to be failing in adequately supporting people who want to start new wikis. Because if it weren't that way highly promising projects like the e. g. Kabyle, Sakha or Crimean Tatar Wikipedias would long be up and running and would be valuable new members of the Wikimedia family of projects by now.
What's even worse is that the subcommittee members themselves don't agree on which rules are in force (cf. http://langcom.wikimedia.org/wiki/Archives/2007-03-23). Pathoschild holds that full localization is not mandatory before final approval (and luckily he still seems to remember what Wikipedia is all about and that we're supposed to be an open project, even to those who don't happen to have a computer science diploma), Berto d'Sera takes a "localization or death" stand and GerardM writes something secret.
Dear Language Subcommittee Members, please stop preventing multilingualism and start enabling and supporting it!
Thank y'all for taking the time to read this!
Arbeo _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I agree totally.
I posted an earlier message about this.
While we do need to deal with certain issues, specifically Belarusan, it seems in all other cases with existing Wikis status quo is best (Siberian and Moldovan) because these at their hearts are two very different types of conflicts (one is for replacement or augmentation of existing Wiki, other is for deletion of valid existing Wikis).
But for new languages, I do not think it is a good idea anymore to have a committee. I supported the idea in the beginning, but I have seen NO REAL ACTION and 0 agreement between members. No new Wikipedias have been formed since the creation of this committee, while certain test Wikis are bursting at their seams!!! (Kabyle, Latgalian, Lower Sorbian, Crimean Tatar, Saterfrisian).
The Incubator Wiki was not made to hold such large projects. It was made to hold proto-projects, not a web of standalone projects (like Wikia).
Also, I am strongly against the "new proposal policy" by Pathoschild.
While I do see a problem with a voting system, I ALSO see a problem with a system where it takes ten thousand years for a Wiki to get approved!!!
Mark
On 25/03/07, Arbeo M arbeo.wiki@googlemail.com wrote:
Hello everybody!
On 11/13 last year the formation of a subcommittee concerning the approval of wikis in new languages etc. was announced on this list.
Back then, I was pleased to see that a few users committed themselves to taking care of multilingualism issues in Wikimedia's projects.
Today, I am disappointed to see that the committee is inoperable.
It is a pitiful fact that since its creation the language subcommittee has achieved virtually *zero *as to the advancement of multilingualism (which is a central pillar in Wikimedia's mission to spread knowledge worldwide).
Even without counting the huge number of requests for new languages the subcommittee simply swept away upon its formation, despite the fact that some of them had previously been approved by the Community (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_requests_for_new_languages), requests are just piling up big time and nothing ever happens (cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages).
One of the main arguments in favor of having a small group of specialized people instead of the whole community decide certain things would be to make things run more efficiently, in other words: speedier. Yet what's really happening is exactly the opposite: we're about to see *the longest period without a single new Wikipedia ever!!* ** What has happened?
Has the number of requests for new languages dropped significantly? - Not really. Wikipedia's reputation around the world is steadily rising and more and more people from various regions of the globe want to start an edition in their own language (but we don't let them).
Are the requests sloppier than they used to be? - Quite the contrary! The quality of most requests is higher than ever before (just have a look at how requests looked three years ago, let alone the Incubator activities) and editors are now preparing new editions with a lot of conscientiousness (yet we don't value that).
So what *is *the reason for this total deadlock? In plain words, I would say it is *a language subcommittee not caring enough *about our fellow users who want to increase the value of Wikimedia's projects and help us on our mission for free knowledge by providing content in additional languages. What good is a language committee that never ever enables new languages?
What do I mean by "not caring enough"? - I mean that obviously the subcommittee or most of its members 1. seem to applying the (all-in-all sensible) rules they set up too morosley (i. e. not for the benefit of but rather against multilinguistic progress) and 2. seem to be failing in adequately supporting people who want to start new wikis. Because if it weren't that way highly promising projects like the e. g. Kabyle, Sakha or Crimean Tatar Wikipedias would long be up and running and would be valuable new members of the Wikimedia family of projects by now.
What's even worse is that the subcommittee members themselves don't agree on which rules are in force (cf. http://langcom.wikimedia.org/wiki/Archives/2007-03-23). Pathoschild holds that full localization is not mandatory before final approval (and luckily he still seems to remember what Wikipedia is all about and that we're supposed to be an open project, even to those who don't happen to have a computer science diploma), Berto d'Sera takes a "localization or death" stand and GerardM writes something secret.
Dear Language Subcommittee Members, please stop preventing multilingualism and start enabling and supporting it!
Thank y'all for taking the time to read this!
Arbeo _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Please cut the drama, folks.
There are several developers who work primarily on localization updates, including Nikerabbit and recently Raymond; updates which are sent to bugzilla usually get through in a relatively timely fashion.
If there are language updates floating around which haven't been committed yet, *let me know* and we'll make sure they get through.
- -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
On Wed, Mar 28, 2007 at 09:52:50AM -0400, Brion Vibber wrote:
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Please cut the drama, folks.
There are several developers who work primarily on localization updates, including Nikerabbit and recently Raymond; updates which are sent to bugzilla usually get through in a relatively timely fashion.
Ah, saves me some time then O:-)
(long thread this)
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