Ok... and in this case can also South Tyrol create its own chapter considering that he has the some autonomy that Hong Kong and it not will finish in 2047?
...and also Guernesey, Man, Shark....
Ilario
----Messaggio originale---- Da: shimgray@gmail.com Data: 24.10.06 18.19 A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"foundation-l@wikimedia.org Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Some question about Wikimedia Hong Kong
I don't understand if this creation is correct considering that Hong Kong will be completely integrated in mainland of China in
the
2047 is a long, long time away. When it comes, we can cross that bridge.
If you live there, and find enough people who want that as well, you can think about it. I can imagine very well that in very big countries such as china, russia, US etc a number of chapters could be set up anyway. It is not reaonable to have general assemblees for your hobby where you have to fly for several hours to attend. so, when there are enought people, they can make a proposal for the chapters committee I guess :)
Lodewijk
2006/10/24, valdelli@bluemail.ch valdelli@bluemail.ch:
Ok... and in this case can also South Tyrol create its own chapter considering that he has the some autonomy that Hong Kong and it not will finish in 2047?
...and also Guernesey, Man, Shark....
Ilario
----Messaggio originale---- Da: shimgray@gmail.com Data: 24.10.06 18.19 A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"foundation-l@wikimedia.org Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Some question about Wikimedia Hong Kong
I don't understand if this creation is correct considering that Hong Kong will be completely integrated in mainland of China in
the
2047 is a long, long time away. When it comes, we can cross that bridge.
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 10/24/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch valdelli@bluemail.ch wrote:
Ok... and in this case can also South Tyrol create its own chapter considering that he has the some autonomy that Hong Kong and it not will finish in 2047?
...and also Guernesey, Man, Shark....
Gibraltar would be a more interesting case
In any event Hong Kong declares independence after the Chinese civil war of 2020 (noted as being the first civil war in which nukes play a part).
Trying to set up a firm policy of one chapter per country is a really bad idea since it gives us the problem of trying to define what a country is.
On 10/24/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Trying to set up a firm policy of one chapter per country is a really bad idea since it gives us the problem of trying to define what a country is.
Hence the reason why we are not trying.
One chapter per "jurisdiction" is closer to what we are trying to do.
Delphine
On 10/24/06, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/24/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Trying to set up a firm policy of one chapter per country is a really bad idea since it gives us the problem of trying to define what a country is.
Hence the reason why we are not trying.
One chapter per "jurisdiction" is closer to what we are trying to do.
Delphine
Even that doesn't work (see transnistria) and then there is the issue that Kaliningrad and Vladivostok are under the same jurisdiction.
On 10/24/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/24/06, Delphine Ménard notafishz@gmail.com wrote:
One chapter per "jurisdiction" is closer to what we are trying to do.
Delphine
Even that doesn't work (see transnistria) and then there is the issue that Kaliningrad and Vladivostok are under the same jurisdiction.
Delphine was quite clearly not saying this was a hard-and-fast rule. Obviously these things should be taken case-by-case.
There's no need to pick holes in everything anyone says. It's very impolite.
On 10/24/06, Sam Korn smoddy@gmail.com wrote:
Delphine was quite clearly not saying this was a hard-and-fast rule. Obviously these things should be taken case-by-case.
There's no need to pick holes in everything anyone says. It's very impolite.
I admit to being a Falsificationist.
I don't like baseing stuff around countries or jurisdictions because that risks furthering nationalism which is the cause of some of our more persistent edit wars.
Instead I would prefer that chapters were based around logistics of transport, population, and comunication (languages). Not of course in many cases this will give a result that lines up with existing boarders either national or sub-national but I would dislike makeing such a link explicit.
On 10/24/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
Instead I would prefer that chapters were based around logistics of transport, population, and comunication (languages).
I'm somewhat opposed to the concept of basing chapters around e.g. languages. Because this would mean, that we'd have for example just one "german-language-chapter" covering Germany, Austria and Switzerland. You know what was the very initial reason to set up an independent Swiss chapter? Tax deductibility of donations. If there is an association is Germany or in the USA, Swiss (and Austrian) people are less likely to donate money, as they can't deduce it from taxes. Of course, this would be the same problem with an "english-language" chapter or a "french-language" chapter or a population-based chapter ("Alaska+Canada") or a transport-based chapter (I can't find an example here). Further, much legal things are easier, if the association is based there where it operates (not only tax deductibility but also doing marketing, renting locations, all the postal mail stuff [postage] and so on). So I'd propose a kind of "one judicature per chapter" (note the word order) system. This means, one chapter cannot serve / operate in several countries, but there is still the possibility of "sub-chapters" in different parts of the country (think of "Wikimedia Suisse Romandie" or "Wikimedia US Pacific Coast" or "Wikimedia North Germany" or whatever)
Regards Michael
Not of course in many cases this will give a result that lines up with existing boarders either national or sub-national but I would dislike makeing such a link explicit.
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 10/24/06, Michael Bimmler mbimmler@gmail.com wrote:
I'm somewhat opposed to the concept of basing chapters around e.g. languages. Because this would mean, that we'd have for example just one "german-language-chapter" covering Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
No becuase logistics issues would kick in
The languages thing with to deal with the problem of countires like say India where it is quite posible that people would not share a common language
Switerland has German, French, Italian, and Romansh that I know of. I don't know how bi/trilingual people are in Switzerland.
So I'd propose a kind of "one judicature per chapter" (note the word order) system.
While logicists will most require that to the case there are logical exceptions (any kurdish speaking chapter would probably have to be based in northen Iraq although sadly I suspect it will be a long time before that becomes an issue).
On 10/24/06, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/24/06, Michael Bimmler mbimmler@gmail.com wrote:
I'm somewhat opposed to the concept of basing chapters around e.g. languages. Because this would mean, that we'd have for example just one "german-language-chapter" covering Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
No becuase logistics issues would kick in
The languages thing with to deal with the problem of countires like say India where it is quite posible that people would not share a common language
Switerland has German, French, Italian, and Romansh that I know of. I don't know how bi/trilingual people are in Switzerland.
depends... You are supposed to learn a second language (usu french for german-speakers and german/italian for french-speakers) in school but this doesn't mean you're biligual afterwards... There is a slight tendency to communicate rather in English.
So I'd propose a kind of "one judicature per chapter" (note the word order) system.
While logicists will most require that to the case there are logical exceptions (any kurdish speaking chapter would probably have to be based in northen Iraq although sadly I suspect it will be a long time before that becomes an issue).
Truly so. Michael
-- geni _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
geni napisał(a):
On 10/24/06, Delphine Ménard wrote:
On 10/24/06, geni wrote:
Trying to set up a firm policy of one chapter per country is a really bad idea since it gives us the problem of trying to define what a country is.
Hence the reason why we are not trying.
One chapter per "jurisdiction" is closer to what we are trying to do.
Even that doesn't work (see transnistria) and then there is the issue that Kaliningrad and Vladivostok are under the same jurisdiction.
I would approach this from a more practical angle, i.e. do we *need* a chapter in a given territory?
Hong Kong: Yes, it is/will eventually be China. Go ahead and try to set up a non-profit tied to a US-based Foundation in mainland China. :) If we can have Honk Kong instead, lets do it.
Poland: WMPL has been set up and is doing fine. We could go for a sub-chapter in each voivodship but right now that doesn't make any sense (and probably never will ;)).
US: Being the huuuge country that they are, the US might benefit from a more local (e.g. state-level) structure than most smaller countries (see Poland above).
So, to answer Illario's question about South Tyrol with a question of my own: Is South Tyrol within the 'reach' of WMIT? If so, I would be inclined to say no to a South Tyrol chapter. If not, however, a new chapter (possibly a subdivision of WMIT) would be something to consider.
On 24/10/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch valdelli@bluemail.ch wrote:
Ok... and in this case can also South Tyrol create its own chapter considering that he has the some autonomy that Hong Kong and it not will finish in 2047?
...and also Guernesey, Man, Shark....
[shrug] If legal and practical reasons in the relevant jurisdictions make it practical and desirable to set up Wikimedia Guernsey, then yes, there's no reason we wouldn't set up that chapter. I am assuming that, currently, Hong Kong is a sensible and viable option, even if it will not remain so forever.
This isn't some kind of one-chapter-per-country, or one-per-geographic-unit, it's an attempt to set up local chapters on a sensible scale on a case-by-case basis. In some cases, this will mean subnational entities; in other cases, it may mean regional ones.
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org