(Note from Mike this is a resent, slightly revised version of the FAQ that I circulated a few weeks ago. It's also posted at the Wikimania website.)
--
Dear folks,
With the valuable assistance of Delphine and the local Wikimania team in Alexandria, I have attempted to assemble a security FAQ for Wikimania attendees at Wikimania 2008 at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina,. In particular, what follows is an attempt to give general answers to most of the security questions that were asked on foundation-l regarding security issues at the site.
1) Will all Wikimania events take place inside the Library of Alexandria?
The short answer to this question is no. There will be at least two other events -- parties -- that will take place elsewhere. One party will be held for regular attendees to gather the community and that most probably will be in a private club in open air beside the Alexandria airport on the highway. The other party will be for "VIP" people and sponsors, and will be in one of two places -- one downtown and one on the seaside. Both places are known to be safe for tourists and receive such visitors all over the year. Note from Mike: The message we consistently got from the Egyptian consulate is that Alexandria is very tourist-friendly and that many local citizens will seize the opportunity to come up and speak with Wikimanians to try out their English (or other languages).
2) What percentage of events will take place elsewhere?
The local team estimates 20 to 30 percent of events will take place elsewhere.
3) Where will attendees be staying?
Either in 3 hotels [Windsor, Metropol, Delta] in downtown Alexandria, 15 minutes walk from the Library, or in in Saint Marc dormitories, 5 minutes walking from BA (in the other direction). There useful map available at <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/c/c3/Hotels-Alex.jpg
. Attendees who do not wish to stay at one of the three conference
hotels or in the dorms will be able to book alternatives online.
4) Will there be transportation between housing and events?
No, walking around this area is pretty safe (walked every day by lots of tourists) and they can shop, watch some attractions of Alexandria, like Raml station, mosques, beautiful old buildings on the way.
5) How will security needs be addressed?
Our advice from the consulate was that, so long as an event has a local sponsor (as we have with the Library), the sponsor and local police will coordinate security needs. So it remains important to work closely with the Library to inform them if special arrangements need to be made (if, for example, there's an event with a large number of VIPs attending).
6) What kind of security arrangements will be made with regard to transportation to and from Wikimania events?
In cases where transportation is required, the local partner will normally arrange with local police to have a police car accompanying moving shuttles with tourists. If told in advance, police will provide this for any buses at any time.
7) Are there kinds of public behavior, otherwise acceptable in many other cultures, that ought to be avoided in Alexandria?
The short answer from the local team is this: "Kissing in public, regardless of sex, is the only taboo around here."
8) Is there any need for attendees to travel in groups?
No, says the local team.
9) Are there religious issues or expressions that should be avoided?
One report from the local team: "wearing [a yarmulke] or a large [Star of David], considering the current circumstances, will make Jews stand out, which may not be very good. This said, Jews have been moving safely and freely around Egypt. However, considering the current escalation of the situation in Israel/Palestine, flaunting such religious symbols may result (at worst) in harassment, I don't know if this situation will continue till the conference or not."
10) Are there any issues with how members of religious minorities, sexual-orientation minorities (e.g., lesbians, gays, bisexuals), or racial minorities present themselves? Should female attendees be alert to any issues of self-presentation that might disturb Egyptians?
From the local team: "For Females, Just to not be overly liberal in dress code, shorts are ok, bikinis are not." Note from Mike: We got essentially the same advice from the consulate. Typical Western clothing is understood to be acceptable for women, just so long as it is not overly revealing or provocative. The INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK has lots of photos of students, men and women, in western dress. There is also advice about what to pack (travel light or you'll be spending time in the customs office). 11) Has there been contact with the Egyptian government regarding security issues for an international conference?
(There definitely has now! ;) The folks at the consulate in SF are big Wikipedia fans, it turns out.
12) Apart from notifying one's own country's embassy about travel in the region, what notifications should be made (in advance or otherwise) to the Egyptian government regarding one's travel to the conference?
Get a tourist visa. You can get one by mail, but it takes weeks -- you should think about getting one now. If there is a Egyptian consulate where you are, however, you may be able to get a tourist visa in as little as a day. . 13) What am forgetting?
Lots of stuff, but it's mainly well-detailed in the INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK (see link below). Read carefully the section on getting health insurance for your travel -- that's pretty much a standard requirement. I hope this short FAQ goes a long way in answering basic security questions about upcoming Wikimania. Please feel free to recirculate, repost, wikify, or whatever.
Final note from Mike: In the course of my research about Wikimania 2008 security concerns, I've found an excellent resource that I want to share with all of you. When Kul Wadhwa and I met with the Egyptian consulate in San Francisco, the consul recommended to us the American University in Cairo website as an introduction for foreign travelers, and it is in fact a great website <http://www.aucegypt.edu/intstudents/Pages/default.aspx
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: <http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International... Handbook.aspx
.
Of course, Alexandria is a different city from Cairo, but the issues for a foreign national trying to get a quick understanding of urban Egyptian culture are the essentially the same. The handbook covers most issues in detail, from what kind of clothing to bring to the obtaining of health insurance and tourist visas. Even if you think you know all you need to know about traveling in Egypt, a pass through this relatively short handbook will likely answer some questions you haven't thought to ask yet. I highly recommend it.
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team? Frankly that's weak. Very weak, especially given the local team's reports don't jive with certain reports from the international news media.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Mike Godwin wrote:
(Note from Mike this is a resent, slightly revised version of the FAQ that I circulated a few weeks ago. It's also posted at the Wikimania website.)
--
Dear folks,
With the valuable assistance of Delphine and the local Wikimania team in Alexandria, I have attempted to assemble a security FAQ for Wikimania attendees at Wikimania 2008 at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina,. In particular, what follows is an attempt to give general answers to most of the security questions that were asked on foundation-l regarding security issues at the site.
- Will all Wikimania events take place inside the Library of
Alexandria?
The short answer to this question is no. There will be at least two other events -- parties -- that will take place elsewhere. One party will be held for regular attendees to gather the community and that most probably will be in a private club in open air beside the Alexandria airport on the highway. The other party will be for "VIP" people and sponsors, and will be in one of two places -- one downtown and one on the seaside. Both places are known to be safe for tourists and receive such visitors all over the year. Note from Mike: The message we consistently got from the Egyptian consulate is that Alexandria is very tourist-friendly and that many local citizens will seize the opportunity to come up and speak with Wikimanians to try out their English (or other languages).
- What percentage of events will take place elsewhere?
The local team estimates 20 to 30 percent of events will take place elsewhere.
- Where will attendees be staying?
Either in 3 hotels [Windsor, Metropol, Delta] in downtown Alexandria, 15 minutes walk from the Library, or in in Saint Marc dormitories, 5 minutes walking from BA (in the other direction). There useful map available at <http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/c/c3/Hotels-Alex.jpg
. Attendees who do not wish to stay at one of the three conference
hotels or in the dorms will be able to book alternatives online.
- Will there be transportation between housing and events?
No, walking around this area is pretty safe (walked every day by lots of tourists) and they can shop, watch some attractions of Alexandria, like Raml station, mosques, beautiful old buildings on the way.
- How will security needs be addressed?
Our advice from the consulate was that, so long as an event has a local sponsor (as we have with the Library), the sponsor and local police will coordinate security needs. So it remains important to work closely with the Library to inform them if special arrangements need to be made (if, for example, there's an event with a large number of VIPs attending).
- What kind of security arrangements will be made with regard to
transportation to and from Wikimania events?
In cases where transportation is required, the local partner will normally arrange with local police to have a police car accompanying moving shuttles with tourists. If told in advance, police will provide this for any buses at any time.
- Are there kinds of public behavior, otherwise acceptable in many
other cultures, that ought to be avoided in Alexandria?
The short answer from the local team is this: "Kissing in public, regardless of sex, is the only taboo around here."
- Is there any need for attendees to travel in groups?
No, says the local team.
- Are there religious issues or expressions that should be avoided?
One report from the local team: "wearing [a yarmulke] or a large [Star of David], considering the current circumstances, will make Jews stand out, which may not be very good. This said, Jews have been moving safely and freely around Egypt. However, considering the current escalation of the situation in Israel/Palestine, flaunting such religious symbols may result (at worst) in harassment, I don't know if this situation will continue till the conference or not."
- Are there any issues with how members of religious minorities,
sexual-orientation minorities (e.g., lesbians, gays, bisexuals), or racial minorities present themselves? Should female attendees be alert to any issues of self-presentation that might disturb Egyptians?
From the local team: "For Females, Just to not be overly liberal in dress code, shorts are ok, bikinis are not." Note from Mike: We got essentially the same advice from the consulate. Typical Western clothing is understood to be acceptable for women, just so long as it is not overly revealing or provocative. The INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK has lots of photos of students, men and women, in western dress. There is also advice about what to pack (travel light or you'll be spending time in the customs office). 11) Has there been contact with the Egyptian government regarding security issues for an international conference?
(There definitely has now! ;) The folks at the consulate in SF are big Wikipedia fans, it turns out.
- Apart from notifying one's own country's embassy about travel in
the region, what notifications should be made (in advance or otherwise) to the Egyptian government regarding one's travel to the conference?
Get a tourist visa. You can get one by mail, but it takes weeks -- you should think about getting one now. If there is a Egyptian consulate where you are, however, you may be able to get a tourist visa in as little as a day. . 13) What am forgetting?
Lots of stuff, but it's mainly well-detailed in the INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK (see link below). Read carefully the section on getting health insurance for your travel -- that's pretty much a standard requirement. I hope this short FAQ goes a long way in answering basic security questions about upcoming Wikimania. Please feel free to recirculate, repost, wikify, or whatever.
Final note from Mike: In the course of my research about Wikimania 2008 security concerns, I've found an excellent resource that I want to share with all of you. When Kul Wadhwa and I met with the Egyptian consulate in San Francisco, the consul recommended to us the American University in Cairo website as an introduction for foreign travelers, and it is in fact a great website <http://www.aucegypt.edu/intstudents/Pages/default.aspx
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: <http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International... Handbook.aspx
.
Of course, Alexandria is a different city from Cairo, but the issues for a foreign national trying to get a quick understanding of urban Egyptian culture are the essentially the same. The handbook covers most issues in detail, from what kind of clothing to bring to the obtaining of health insurance and tourist visas. Even if you think you know all you need to know about traveling in Egypt, a pass through this relatively short handbook will likely answer some questions you haven't thought to ask yet. I highly recommend it.
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What do you expect, a security detail for all attendees?
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team? Frankly that's weak. Very weak, especially given the local team's reports don't jive with certain reports from the international news media.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Mike Godwin wrote:
(Note from Mike this is a resent, slightly revised version of the FAQ that I circulated a few weeks ago. It's also posted at the Wikimania website.)
--
Dear folks,
With the valuable assistance of Delphine and the local Wikimania team in Alexandria, I have attempted to assemble a security FAQ for Wikimania attendees at Wikimania 2008 at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina,. In particular, what follows is an attempt to give general answers to most of the security questions that were asked on foundation-l regarding security issues at the site.
- Will all Wikimania events take place inside the Library of
Alexandria?
The short answer to this question is no. There will be at least two other events -- parties -- that will take place elsewhere. One party will be held for regular attendees to gather the community and that most probably will be in a private club in open air beside the Alexandria airport on the highway. The other party will be for "VIP" people and sponsors, and will be in one of two places -- one downtown and one on the seaside. Both places are known to be safe for tourists and receive such visitors all over the year. Note from Mike: The message we consistently got from the Egyptian consulate is that Alexandria is very tourist-friendly and that many local citizens will seize the opportunity to come up and speak with Wikimanians to try out their English (or other languages).
- What percentage of events will take place elsewhere?
The local team estimates 20 to 30 percent of events will take place elsewhere.
- Where will attendees be staying?
Either in 3 hotels [Windsor, Metropol, Delta] in downtown Alexandria, 15 minutes walk from the Library, or in in Saint Marc dormitories, 5 minutes walking from BA (in the other direction). There useful map available at <
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/c/c3/Hotels-Alex.jpg
. Attendees who do not wish to stay at one of the three conference
hotels or in the dorms will be able to book alternatives online.
- Will there be transportation between housing and events?
No, walking around this area is pretty safe (walked every day by lots of tourists) and they can shop, watch some attractions of Alexandria, like Raml station, mosques, beautiful old buildings on the way.
- How will security needs be addressed?
Our advice from the consulate was that, so long as an event has a local sponsor (as we have with the Library), the sponsor and local police will coordinate security needs. So it remains important to work closely with the Library to inform them if special arrangements need to be made (if, for example, there's an event with a large number of VIPs attending).
- What kind of security arrangements will be made with regard to
transportation to and from Wikimania events?
In cases where transportation is required, the local partner will normally arrange with local police to have a police car accompanying moving shuttles with tourists. If told in advance, police will provide this for any buses at any time.
- Are there kinds of public behavior, otherwise acceptable in many
other cultures, that ought to be avoided in Alexandria?
The short answer from the local team is this: "Kissing in public, regardless of sex, is the only taboo around here."
- Is there any need for attendees to travel in groups?
No, says the local team.
- Are there religious issues or expressions that should be avoided?
One report from the local team: "wearing [a yarmulke] or a large [Star of David], considering the current circumstances, will make Jews stand out, which may not be very good. This said, Jews have been moving safely and freely around Egypt. However, considering the current escalation of the situation in Israel/Palestine, flaunting such religious symbols may result (at worst) in harassment, I don't know if this situation will continue till the conference or not."
- Are there any issues with how members of religious minorities,
sexual-orientation minorities (e.g., lesbians, gays, bisexuals), or racial minorities present themselves? Should female attendees be alert to any issues of self-presentation that might disturb Egyptians?
From the local team: "For Females, Just to not be overly liberal in dress code, shorts are ok, bikinis are not." Note from Mike: We got essentially the same advice from the consulate. Typical Western clothing is understood to be acceptable for women, just so long as it is not overly revealing or provocative. The INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK has lots of photos of students, men and women, in western dress. There is also advice about what to pack (travel light or you'll be spending time in the customs office). 11) Has there been contact with the Egyptian government regarding security issues for an international conference?
(There definitely has now! ;) The folks at the consulate in SF are big Wikipedia fans, it turns out.
- Apart from notifying one's own country's embassy about travel in
the region, what notifications should be made (in advance or otherwise) to the Egyptian government regarding one's travel to the conference?
Get a tourist visa. You can get one by mail, but it takes weeks -- you should think about getting one now. If there is a Egyptian consulate where you are, however, you may be able to get a tourist visa in as little as a day. . 13) What am forgetting?
Lots of stuff, but it's mainly well-detailed in the INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK (see link below). Read carefully the section on getting health insurance for your travel -- that's pretty much a standard requirement. I hope this short FAQ goes a long way in answering basic security questions about upcoming Wikimania. Please feel free to recirculate, repost, wikify, or whatever.
Final note from Mike: In the course of my research about Wikimania 2008 security concerns, I've found an excellent resource that I want to share with all of you. When Kul Wadhwa and I met with the Egyptian consulate in San Francisco, the consul recommended to us the American University in Cairo website as an introduction for foreign travelers, and it is in fact a great website <
http://www.aucegypt.edu/intstudents/Pages/default.aspx
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: <
http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International...
Handbook.aspx
.
Of course, Alexandria is a different city from Cairo, but the issues for a foreign national trying to get a quick understanding of urban Egyptian culture are the essentially the same. The handbook covers most issues in detail, from what kind of clothing to bring to the obtaining of health insurance and tourist visas. Even if you think you know all you need to know about traveling in Egypt, a pass through this relatively short handbook will likely answer some questions you haven't thought to ask yet. I highly recommend it.
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No, I expect an adequate security assessment that goes beyond asking people with a vested interest in seeing the event happen smoothly. The local team has a humongous conflict of interest here. Their "say so" on whether something is safe is inherently unacceptable.
-Dan
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:28 PM, Brian wrote:
What do you expect, a security detail for all attendees?
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team? Frankly that's weak. Very weak, especially given the local team's reports don't jive with certain reports from the international news media.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 7:34 PM, Mike Godwin wrote:
(Note from Mike this is a resent, slightly revised version of the FAQ that I circulated a few weeks ago. It's also posted at the Wikimania website.)
--
Dear folks,
With the valuable assistance of Delphine and the local Wikimania team in Alexandria, I have attempted to assemble a security FAQ for Wikimania attendees at Wikimania 2008 at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina,. In particular, what follows is an attempt to give general answers to most of the security questions that were asked on foundation-l regarding security issues at the site.
- Will all Wikimania events take place inside the Library of
Alexandria?
The short answer to this question is no. There will be at least two other events -- parties -- that will take place elsewhere. One party will be held for regular attendees to gather the community and that most probably will be in a private club in open air beside the Alexandria airport on the highway. The other party will be for "VIP" people and sponsors, and will be in one of two places -- one downtown and one on the seaside. Both places are known to be safe for tourists and receive such visitors all over the year. Note from Mike: The message we consistently got from the Egyptian consulate is that Alexandria is very tourist-friendly and that many local citizens will seize the opportunity to come up and speak with Wikimanians to try out their English (or other languages).
- What percentage of events will take place elsewhere?
The local team estimates 20 to 30 percent of events will take place elsewhere.
- Where will attendees be staying?
Either in 3 hotels [Windsor, Metropol, Delta] in downtown Alexandria, 15 minutes walk from the Library, or in in Saint Marc dormitories, 5 minutes walking from BA (in the other direction). There useful map available at <
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/meta/c/c3/Hotels-Alex.jpg
. Attendees who do not wish to stay at one of the three conference
hotels or in the dorms will be able to book alternatives online.
- Will there be transportation between housing and events?
No, walking around this area is pretty safe (walked every day by lots of tourists) and they can shop, watch some attractions of Alexandria, like Raml station, mosques, beautiful old buildings on the way.
- How will security needs be addressed?
Our advice from the consulate was that, so long as an event has a local sponsor (as we have with the Library), the sponsor and local police will coordinate security needs. So it remains important to work closely with the Library to inform them if special arrangements need to be made (if, for example, there's an event with a large number of VIPs attending).
- What kind of security arrangements will be made with regard to
transportation to and from Wikimania events?
In cases where transportation is required, the local partner will normally arrange with local police to have a police car accompanying moving shuttles with tourists. If told in advance, police will provide this for any buses at any time.
- Are there kinds of public behavior, otherwise acceptable in many
other cultures, that ought to be avoided in Alexandria?
The short answer from the local team is this: "Kissing in public, regardless of sex, is the only taboo around here."
- Is there any need for attendees to travel in groups?
No, says the local team.
- Are there religious issues or expressions that should be avoided?
One report from the local team: "wearing [a yarmulke] or a large [Star of David], considering the current circumstances, will make Jews stand out, which may not be very good. This said, Jews have been moving safely and freely around Egypt. However, considering the current escalation of the situation in Israel/Palestine, flaunting such religious symbols may result (at worst) in harassment, I don't know if this situation will continue till the conference or not."
- Are there any issues with how members of religious minorities,
sexual-orientation minorities (e.g., lesbians, gays, bisexuals), or racial minorities present themselves? Should female attendees be alert to any issues of self-presentation that might disturb Egyptians?
From the local team: "For Females, Just to not be overly liberal in dress code, shorts are ok, bikinis are not." Note from Mike: We got essentially the same advice from the consulate. Typical Western clothing is understood to be acceptable for women, just so long as it is not overly revealing or provocative. The INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK has lots of photos of students, men and women, in western dress. There is also advice about what to pack (travel light or you'll be spending time in the customs office). 11) Has there been contact with the Egyptian government regarding security issues for an international conference?
(There definitely has now! ;) The folks at the consulate in SF are big Wikipedia fans, it turns out.
- Apart from notifying one's own country's embassy about travel in
the region, what notifications should be made (in advance or otherwise) to the Egyptian government regarding one's travel to the conference?
Get a tourist visa. You can get one by mail, but it takes weeks -- you should think about getting one now. If there is a Egyptian consulate where you are, however, you may be able to get a tourist visa in as little as a day. . 13) What am forgetting?
Lots of stuff, but it's mainly well-detailed in the INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS HANDBOOK (see link below). Read carefully the section on getting health insurance for your travel -- that's pretty much a standard requirement. I hope this short FAQ goes a long way in answering basic security questions about upcoming Wikimania. Please feel free to recirculate, repost, wikify, or whatever.
Final note from Mike: In the course of my research about Wikimania 2008 security concerns, I've found an excellent resource that I want to share with all of you. When Kul Wadhwa and I met with the Egyptian consulate in San Francisco, the consul recommended to us the American University in Cairo website as an introduction for foreign travelers, and it is in fact a great website <
http://www.aucegypt.edu/intstudents/Pages/default.aspx
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: <
http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International...
Handbook.aspx
.
Of course, Alexandria is a different city from Cairo, but the issues for a foreign national trying to get a quick understanding of urban Egyptian culture are the essentially the same. The handbook covers most issues in detail, from what kind of clothing to bring to the obtaining of health insurance and tourist visas. Even if you think you know all you need to know about traveling in Egypt, a pass through this relatively short handbook will likely answer some questions you haven't thought to ask yet. I highly recommend it.
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On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team?
And the Egyptian consulate in SF, who ought to know what they're talking about. Consulting some independent security experts would probably be wise too, though.
I have no objection to the parts from the Egyptian consulate. My only objection is to the parts by the local team.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:42 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team?
And the Egyptian consulate in SF, who ought to know what they're talking about. Consulting some independent security experts would probably be wise too, though.
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Have you checked the state departments travel information area for any alerts, et cetera?
Dan Rosenthal wrote:
I have no objection to the parts from the Egyptian consulate. My only objection is to the parts by the local team.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:42 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team?
And the Egyptian consulate in SF, who ought to know what they're talking about. Consulting some independent security experts would probably be wise too, though.
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We did that in the last iteration of this thread a month or two ago (the concerns were what prompted this check).
As an aside, I'm disappointed in the idea that Jews should not wear yarmulka/kippot. Because it makes us look jewish?
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:55 PM, Jon wrote:
Have you checked the state departments travel information area for any alerts, et cetera?
Dan Rosenthal wrote:
I have no objection to the parts from the Egyptian consulate. My only objection is to the parts by the local team.
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:42 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
So this is mostly based on the assurances of the local team?
And the Egyptian consulate in SF, who ought to know what they're talking about. Consulting some independent security experts would probably be wise too, though.
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What kind of question is that? Seriously? The report suggests that Jews should not wear yarmulka. It does not suggest anything about the palestine conflict. Are you having trouble with seeing the problem that the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
-Dan On Apr 18, 2008, at 9:12 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
As an aside, I'm disappointed in the idea that Jews should not wear yarmulka/kippot. Because it makes us look jewish?
Well, I think we're probably all rather disappointed by the Palestine/Israel conflict, what's your point?
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--- Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote: the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a
conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
This kind of inaccurate quoting is inflammatory, counter-productive, damages your credibility and does not deserve a response. I hope other people join me in not responding further to you if you continue in this tone.
Birgitte SB
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
What kind of question is that? Seriously? The report suggests that Jews should not wear yarmulka. It does not suggest anything about the palestine conflict. Are you having trouble with seeing the problem that the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
You go to a country which is involved in a conflict and wear something which shows an affiliation with the other side, you may get into a spot of bother. That's common sense. It seems your problem isn't with the advice, but rather with the choice of host country - if that's the case, then say what you mean.
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
What kind of question is that? Seriously? The report suggests that Jews should not wear yarmulka. It does not suggest anything about the palestine conflict. Are you having trouble with seeing the problem that the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
You go to a country which is involved in a conflict and wear something which shows an affiliation with the other side, you may get into a spot of bother. That's common sense.
Another term for it is "street smarts".
Ec
I'm curious which side of this conflict are "jews" on? The Egypt side, or the undefined "other" side?
-Dan On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
What kind of question is that? Seriously? The report suggests that Jews should not wear yarmulka. It does not suggest anything about the palestine conflict. Are you having trouble with seeing the problem that the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
You go to a country which is involved in a conflict and wear something which shows an affiliation with the other side, you may get into a spot of bother. That's common sense.
Another term for it is "street smarts".
Ec
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On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
I'm curious which side of this conflict are "jews" on? The Egypt side, or the undefined "other" side?
I never said Jews were on a particular side, but they are quite definitely affiliated with Israel.
Dan Rosenthal wrote:
I'm curious which side of this conflict are "jews" on? The Egypt side, or the undefined "other" side?
Unlike you I would prefer not to emphasize the conflict. Currently there is no overt conflict between Israel and Egypt, which is not to say that there are no idiots willing to grasp at an opportunity to prove their idiocy. Those exist all over the world, without regard to the relatively more open official policies. A yarmulka-wearing jew can be just as subject to discriminatory behaviour in the United States as in Egypt, and probably knows to avoid questionable neighborhoods in his home country. I do note the absence of Israeli voices in this discussion, and they are much closer to the issues than North American voices.
One does well to avoid potential flash potential flash points if possible. The mere trappings of a religion are one such avoidable flash point. Security begins with the self. One should not depend on the assessment of others for one's security. Risk tolerance varies from one person to another. No-one should feel an obligation to attend an event in a country where he will not personally feel safe It is unreasonable to believe that the security provided by an organization will ever satisfy all the concerns expressed by the least risk tolerant among us.
Ec
On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 19/04/2008, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
What kind of question is that? Seriously? The report suggests that Jews should not wear yarmulka. It does not suggest anything about the palestine conflict. Are you having trouble with seeing the problem that the Wikimedia Foundation is hosting a conference, with the warning "Oh by the way, don't "look" jewish, you might get hurt"?
You go to a country which is involved in a conflict and wear something which shows an affiliation with the other side, you may get into a spot of bother. That's common sense.
Another term for it is "street smarts".
Hello,
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 1:34 AM, Mike Godwin mgodwin@wikimedia.org wrote:
(Note from Mike this is a resent, slightly revised version of the FAQ that I circulated a few weeks ago. It's also posted at the Wikimania website.)
--
Dear folks,
With the valuable assistance of Delphine and the local Wikimania team in Alexandria, I have attempted to assemble a security FAQ for Wikimania attendees at Wikimania 2008 at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina,. In particular, what follows is an attempt to give general answers to most of the security questions that were asked on foundation-l regarding security issues at the site.
Thank you Mike for this FAQ. However, it seems to me this is the result of an "internal" assessment conducted by Foundation employees, with the help of local organizers. Though I deeply value the work of Foundation employees, they are not risk assessments specialists, and this FAQ is not an "assessment from a professional firm", as promised by Sue in her February report to the board (see quote below). So, I'd like you to confirm that there actually is an additional assessment being conducted by a professional firm.
<quote> The board has asked me to review the Wikimania security issues. I've asked Mike to commission a routine conference site assessment from a professional firm, with a special focus on issues facing LGBT participants, and within the context of us being an organization that's highly-visible and not uncontroversial (e.g., Muhammad pictures, etc.). We'll ask for an overall threat assessment, as well as a set of recommendations on how to best reduce risk. I'll report progress to the board in April. </quote>
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-March/039460.html
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Mike Godwin mgodwin@wikimedia.org wrote:
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: < http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International...
I got an error for that link - the correct link is: < http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International... (no spaces in url).
Thanks for the other info. :-)
Cormac
The non-wrapping tinyurl is http://tinyurl.com/4gb9ae
Brian McNeil
-----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Cormac Lawler Sent: 19 April 2008 10:51 To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] (Flashback) A short (and revised) FAQ aboutWikimania in Alexandria
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Mike Godwin mgodwin@wikimedia.org wrote:
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: <
http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International StudentHandbook.aspx
I got an error for that link - the correct link is: < http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International StudentHandbook.aspx> (no spaces in url).
Thanks for the other info. :-)
Cormac _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Cormac Lawler wrote:
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Mike Godwin mgodwin@wikimedia.org wrote:
. But of particular interest to Wikimanians (who presumably won't
be taking courses and worried about the class schedule) is a PDF publication, INTERNATIONAL STUDENT HANDBOOK, which can be found and downloaded here: < http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International...
I got an error for that link - the correct link is: < http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Pages/International... (no spaces in url).
This one is even better. ;o) http://www.aucegypt.edu/StudentLife/StudentServices/isso/Documents/IntlStude...
Thanks for the other info. :-)
Cormac
Regards,
Yann
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