Hi, I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
Cheers,
KIZU Naoko wrote:
I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
Hi.
I believe you're referring to this error message: http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&.
I remember it being multi-lingual as well. It was also enormous. I'm not sure when or why it was shortened (though my suspicion is that it was shortened because it was enormous). The planning for the message appears to have taken place here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_error_messages
I don't see any bugs in Bugzilla off-hand about this being shortened to use only English. There's a bug from June 2010 about the language selector being broken: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23944 That gives a shorter timeframe in which to look for the message being shortened (sometime between June 2010 and December 2010).
You probably want to e-mail wikitech-l about this. I doubt many people on this list will have much insight into this issue. Or file a bug in Bugzilla to re-add multi-language support if you're feeling adventurous. The worst case scenario is that it will be resolved as a duplicate bug.
Hope that helps.
MZMcBride
On 9 December 2010 23:50, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
KIZU Naoko wrote:
I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
Hi.
I believe you're referring to this error message: http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&.
I remember it being multi-lingual as well. It was also enormous. I'm not sure when or why it was shortened (though my suspicion is that it was shortened because it was enormous). The planning for the message appears to have taken place here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_error_messages
Are you sure you're not thinking of this message? http://www.doxaliber.it/wp-uploads/images/wikipedia_down_big.jpg
I think you still get that one if there's a server problem, but short of getting a plane to Florida and randomly flicking switches I can't confirm that! Obviously it's good because its multilingual, but also because it has a donate link.
The 404 error you linked to (http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&) could certainly be improved, though as far as I know it's always been like that. Absurd really, how many users who've mistyped an address are going to want a database dump?
Pete / the wub
On 10 December 2010 00:47, Peter Coombe thewub.wiki@googlemail.com wrote:
On 9 December 2010 23:50, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
KIZU Naoko wrote:
I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
Hi.
I believe you're referring to this error message: http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&.
I remember it being multi-lingual as well. It was also enormous. I'm not sure when or why it was shortened (though my suspicion is that it was shortened because it was enormous). The planning for the message appears to have taken place here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_error_messages
Are you sure you're not thinking of this message? http://www.doxaliber.it/wp-uploads/images/wikipedia_down_big.jpg
I think you still get that one if there's a server problem, but short of getting a plane to Florida and randomly flicking switches I can't confirm that! Obviously it's good because its multilingual, but also because it has a donate link.
The 404 error you linked to (http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&) could certainly be improved, though as far as I know it's always been like that. Absurd really, how many users who've mistyped an address are going to want a database dump?
Pete / the wub
Ah disregard the first part of my message. Gmail wasn't including the semicolon as part of your link. I copy pasted it to get the right one. Yes, I definitely remember that being multilingual as well, wonder what happened to it?
My comment about the 404 message being poor still stands though.
Pete / the wub
Hi,
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Peter Coombe thewub.wiki@googlemail.com wrote:
On 10 December 2010 00:47, Peter Coombe thewub.wiki@googlemail.com wrote:
On 9 December 2010 23:50, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
KIZU Naoko wrote:
I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
Hi.
I believe you're referring to this error message: http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&.
I remember it being multi-lingual as well. It was also enormous. I'm not sure when or why it was shortened (though my suspicion is that it was shortened because it was enormous). The planning for the message appears to have taken place here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_error_messages
Are you sure you're not thinking of this message? http://www.doxaliber.it/wp-uploads/images/wikipedia_down_big.jpg
I think you still get that one if there's a server problem, but short of getting a plane to Florida and randomly flicking switches I can't confirm that! Obviously it's good because its multilingual, but also because it has a donate link.
Good point!
The 404 error you linked to (http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&) could certainly be improved, though as far as I know it's always been like that. Absurd really, how many users who've mistyped an address are going to want a database dump?
Pete / the wub
Ah disregard the first part of my message. Gmail wasn't including the semicolon as part of your link. I copy pasted it to get the right one.
And thank you for noticing me/us it's somehow weird. Without the entity "&" it works - so we might find two things to fix. I'll later file the bug on the entity related thing, it seems a pure technical thing and need to dig up further here.
Yes, I definitely remember that being multilingual as well, wonder what happened to it?
My comment about the 404 message being poor still stands though.
Pete / the wub
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2010/12/10 KIZU Naoko aphaia@gmail.com:
And thank you for noticing me/us it's somehow weird. Without the entity "&" it works - so we might find two things to fix. I'll later file the bug on the entity related thing, it seems a pure technical thing and need to dig up further here.
The issue there is that you're not getting a 404 ("not found") error, but rather a 403 ("forbidden") error, which isn't a distinction that most people care about, but is certainly unexpected behavior.
Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up elsewhere.
Austin
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Domas Mituzas midom.lists@gmail.com wrote:
Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up elsewhere.
Where you will be told that this is 'working as intended'. & is usually sent in URLs by broken clients, so we block them as early as possible.
With a "403 forbidden" error? Do you really think that's semantically correct?
Austin
On 11/12/10 00:07, Austin Hair wrote:
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Domas Mituzas midom.lists@gmail.com wrote:
Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up elsewhere.
Where you will be told that this is 'working as intended'. & is usually sent in URLs by broken clients, so we block them as early as possible.
With a "403 forbidden" error? Do you really think that's semantically correct?
I think that's the only possible error response that you can deliver from a Squid ACL. But a deny_info could be useful. Maybe Domas didn't get up to the deny_info section in the manual ;)
-- Tim Starling
Sorry for keeping an off-topic (now) for a while; it won't continue so long and I'd love to make the below clear before going to buzgilla.
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:49 PM, Domas Mituzas midom.lists@gmail.com wrote:
Like you say, though, it's definitely a technical issue to be taken up elsewhere.
Where you will be told that this is 'working as intended'. & is usually sent in URLs by broken clients, so we block them as early as possible.
Could be (I was passed this URL on twitter by another Wikimedian, he might not intend to give me the exact one I got). Besides that, is it right? - it was a 403 message - it is different from 404 one at this moment, if then are you guys welcome us to make 403 one multilingual? else is there any trouble to reuse 404 one for this purpose too?
Cheers,
Domas _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Peter Coombe wrote:
The 404 error you linked to (http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/&) could certainly be improved, though as far as I know it's always been like that. Absurd really, how many users who've mistyped an address are going to want a database dump?
There's a bug about improving the 404 page: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17316
There's even a really nice design proposal attached to the bug: http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=7633
It's just "on the list," though.
MZMcBride
On 10/12/10 07:36, KIZU Naoko wrote:
Hi, I've got an error message in trying to access Japanese Wikipedia. It seems long, but it's not my topic. IIRC the message from server was multilingualized years ago and we have offered the message with links to other lang same messages.
The message itself seems not changed from the past, but now it's in English and only without any links to any other language.
What happened? Who decided to remove lang links? And what is the idea behind of this removal?
I removed it, the decision was supported by Mark and Domas.
Although it was very cool, serving a 65KB page as an error message was having some unintended consequences:
* Every time there was a outage on the backend, our outgoing traffic would approximately triple, because the error page was so much larger than the average response size. The high outgoing bandwidth sometimes caused further overloads. This was the situation we were in when we decided to reduce the error message size.
* The jump in traffic when the site was down or slow was making it difficult to interpret the traffic graphs. Normally, we would expect a lack of service to correspond to a drop in traffic.
* If someone is sending us requests at an excessively high request rate, it would probably be cheaper for us to just process the requests than to serve a 65KB "access denied" message for every request.
* The large error message was inconvenient for people using Wikimedia websites from clients other than modern web browsers, for instance command-line utilities that write the error message to the terminal.
In principle, it would be possible to have a short error message with a <script> tag that loads the multilingual error messages. However, the server that serves the script would have to be very robust in order to have a reasonable chance of staying up during downtime. We didn't think it was appropriate to spend a large amount of time setting up such a server, just for this feature.
-- Tim Starling
On 13 December 2010 12:27, Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.org wrote:
In principle, it would be possible to have a short error message with a <script> tag that loads the multilingual error messages.
You should compromise and have a small number of languages, but greater than 1. Language populations have a very long tail, but you can serve a very large proportion of the population with only a small number of languages.
Or rather drop the JS and just put links to static pages in other languages. A single language is definitely a big step back.
Strainu
2010/12/13 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 13 December 2010 12:27, Tim Starling tstarling@wikimedia.org wrote:
In principle, it would be possible to have a short error message with a <script> tag that loads the multilingual error messages.
You should compromise and have a small number of languages, but greater than 1. Language populations have a very long tail, but you can serve a very large proportion of the population with only a small number of languages.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org