Florence Devouard wrote:
Let me thank you for the words of appreciation of the Foundation :-)
I fully understand your need of an organization to help "make contacts", maybe because I saw several french wikipedians negociate pretty well to get press access to political meetings during our elections in France. It was done through the french chapter, and I am pretty sure it largely helped them to refer to the association and to be able to show a nice business card referring to the association, with an appropriate email address.
Being able to officially use the logo on business cards and being able to claim some level of officialness would greatly help us. The @wikinewsie.org e-mail address has already greatly improved responses. Even silly things like wearing a Wikinews polo shirt have improved response. These are all however effective solely because they convey a false sense of officialness, except in the places lucky enough to have chapters where even then they must make a very clear separation between the press activities and the association.
Regarding your suggestion, I tend to share the same level of thinking than Schiste. Wondering how it would work on an international scale. Wondering how chapters could help here. Wondering who would govern that Foundation. How would needs of non english wikinews be taken into account. Etc...
There is no reason why this foundation could not support non-english Wikinews. We actually already have several people with accreditation from non-english Wikinews editions. This puts the English language Wikinews in an awkward spot of denying many request for credentials because the people are to represent the English language Wikinews. At the moment if you do not speak and write English you can not get accreditation. This is a problem a foundation could resolve. There is no reason this foundation like the Wikimedia could not be multilingual.
Governance of a foundation would probably be in the style of an elected board elected either from/by the members of the Wikinews communities or by the community selected accredited reporters. For practical reasons it would probably be set up as a South Carolina based nonprofit(though if we can get someone else to establish it in a better location all the better :) ). South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) . The foundation location is only of concern for setup and basic legal requirements. All of the day to day actions of this foundation would be handled online or for stuff like verifying accreditation via mail and phone.
-Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) .
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) .
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested. The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit (beyond establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts). The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws. The other big benifit to establishing it in the US is we have a vast pool of resources that we can draw on from the WM foundation who are already familiar with US law. -Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
Anthony wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) .
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 22/08/07, Craig Spurrier craig@craigweb.net wrote:
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested.
Is the Wikinews Foundation going to publish anything ?
The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit (beyond establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts).
Do you know what are the procedures to establish a non profit organisation in the other countries? Just to have a quick look on what are the advantages of being in US.
The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws.
Didn't you planned the Wikinews Foundation to be an international foundation?
The other big benifit to establishing it in the US is we have a vast pool of resources that we can draw on from the WM foundation who are already familiar with US law.
I totally agree on this point.
-Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
Anthony wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) .
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Christophe Henner wrote:
On 22/08/07, Craig Spurrier craig@craigweb.net wrote:
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested.
Is the Wikinews Foundation going to publish anything ?
Probably not, however a court could well say otherwise, so us being probably ok on copyright is always a plus.
The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit (beyond establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts).
Do you know what are the procedures to establish a non profit organisation in the other countries? Just to have a quick look on what are the advantages of being in US.
I have looked a little at a few other countries procedures to start a nonprofit. The UK looks rather tricky as does New Zealand. Canada would be ok, but we lack a Wikinewsie in Canada to found it.
The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws.
Didn't you planned the Wikinews Foundation to be an international foundation?
The Wikinews Foundation will be an international foundation. There are still always the possibility of a court finding us to be the publisher, so we want as friendly laws as possible if this occurs.
I think we are getting rather caught up in what is a rather small part of the proposal. For 99% of the foundations actions where it is registered is irrelevant. For the other one percent the US and SC is as good or bad as any place and it has the benifit of someone willing to do the paper work :).
-Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
Generally I like the idea because:
* It means we are serious about WikiNews and mean it to make it an official news agency. * If you are not credited by a well-known organization or an organization people heard about, people in Asia would not believe you are really a journalist or a reporter and will not allow you to get to the press conference (or crime scene) for a news story.
BTW, it's not easy to found a non-profit organization in Asia (or in Taiwan). Is it OK the proposed WikiNews Foundation to support Wikimedia Chapters in Asia for crediting and not to found another WikiNews local chapter?
Best regards, -- H.T. (Ted) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Htchien
Think Different, Do Smarter, Work for Joy!!
From: Craig Spurrier
Christophe Henner wrote:
On 22/08/07, Craig Spurrier craig@craigweb.net wrote:
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested.
Is the Wikinews Foundation going to publish anything ?
Probably not, however a court could well say otherwise, so us being probably ok on copyright is always a plus.
The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit
(beyond
establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts).
Do you know what are the procedures to establish a non profit organisation in the other countries? Just to have a quick look on what are the advantages of being in US.
I have looked a little at a few other countries procedures to start a nonprofit. The UK looks rather tricky as does New Zealand. Canada would be ok, but we lack a Wikinewsie in Canada to found it.
The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws.
Didn't you planned the Wikinews Foundation to be an international
foundation?
The Wikinews Foundation will be an international foundation. There are still always the possibility of a court finding us to be the publisher, so we want as friendly laws as possible if this occurs.
I think we are getting rather caught up in what is a rather small part of the proposal. For 99% of the foundations actions where it is registered is irrelevant. For the other one percent the US and SC is as good or bad as any place and it has the benifit of someone willing to do the paper work :).
-Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Ted (Hsiang-Tai) Chien wrote:
Generally I like the idea because:
- It means we are serious about WikiNews and mean it to make it an official
news agency.
- If you are not credited by a well-known organization or an organization
people heard about, people in Asia would not believe you are really a journalist or a reporter and will not allow you to get to the press conference (or crime scene) for a news story.
This is the case for most of the world except in the countries that have government issued press credentials. I believe a Wikinews foundation could help solve this problem.
BTW, it's not easy to found a non-profit organization in Asia (or in Taiwan). Is it OK the proposed WikiNews Foundation to support Wikimedia Chapters in Asia for crediting and not to found another WikiNews local chapter?
One of the wonderful things about what a Wikinews foundation could do is that we have no real need to split into country chapters. There would be one Wikinews foundation to serve the world. -Craig Spurrier [[n:Craig Spurrier]]
On 8/21/07, Craig Spurrier craig@craigweb.net wrote:
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested. The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit (beyond establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts) The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws.
Canada was ranked highly by Reporters Without Borders for freedom of the press, and I've heard good things about their nonprofit laws.
The other big benifit to establishing it in the US is we have a vast pool of resources that we can draw on from the WM foundation who are already familiar with US law.
Maybe. But one benefit from establishing it outside the US is that it has greater potential to expand the pool of resources.
My comments about freedom of press in the US were questions, hence the question marks. One link I found to kind of answer the question was Reporters Without Borders freedom of the press index. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639 Canada stuck out from that list in my mind because I had heard they had liberal non-profit organization laws.
My comments about freedom of press in the US were questions, hence the question marks.
They came over to me as rhetorical questions with a "this should be obvious" tone. I'm glad to hear that's not how you intended it.
Anthony wrote:
On 8/21/07, Craig Spurrier craig@craigweb.net wrote:
Freedom of press is of course the biggest one. The US also has a copyright system, which far from ideal is decent and well tested. The US also has relatively easy rules for establishing a non profit (beyond establishment it can get complicated but is very well documented and there is no shortage of experts) The US also has very reporter friendly fair use and libel laws.
Canada was ranked highly by Reporters Without Borders for freedom of the press, and I've heard good things about their nonprofit laws.
The other big benifit to establishing it in the US is we have a vast pool of resources that we can draw on from the WM foundation who are already familiar with US law.
Maybe. But one benefit from establishing it outside the US is that it has greater potential to expand the pool of resources.
My comments about freedom of press in the US were questions, hence the question marks. One link I found to kind of answer the question was Reporters Without Borders freedom of the press index. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639 Canada stuck out from that list in my mind because I had heard they had liberal non-profit organization laws.
Speaking as a Canadian, also as a person with no interest in involving himself with Wikinews I can confirm some of this. Getting a corporation set up as a federal non-profit is still a lot of work, and does require detailed annual reporting. For Canadian residents there is effectively a tax credit of about 50% of combined annual charitable contributions over $200, but that doen't do much for non-residents. It is not meaninglessly buried in itemized deductions, as would be the case in the US. I'm not too sure what you meant by "liberal non-profit organization laws."
For copyright we still follow the Berne Convention term of Life + 50 years, and a Supreme Court decision a few years ago looked favorably on US-type fair-use criteria
Whether this is what is wanted for an international organisation remains an open question.
Ec
On 8/22/07, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Anthony wrote:
My comments about freedom of press in the US were questions, hence the question marks. One link I found to kind of answer the question was Reporters Without Borders freedom of the press index. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639 Canada stuck out from that list in my mind because I had heard they had liberal non-profit organization laws.
Speaking as a Canadian, also as a person with no interest in involving himself with Wikinews I can confirm some of this. Getting a corporation set up as a federal non-profit is still a lot of work, and does require detailed annual reporting. For Canadian residents there is effectively a tax credit of about 50% of combined annual charitable contributions over $200, but that doen't do much for non-residents. It is not meaninglessly buried in itemized deductions, as would be the case in the US. I'm not too sure what you meant by "liberal non-profit organization laws."
Well, the main one I was thinking of was that I've heard that Canadian charities are less subject to losing their charity status for engaging in business-like activities. I have absolutely no clue how true that is, though, because I know virtually nothing about Canadian corporation or tax laws.
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
"Sounds unlikely"? That's a strange way to put it.
On 22/08/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
"Sounds unlikely"? That's a strange way to put it.
Strange? It's called an "understatement". I suppose it may be a rather English way to put it.
Anyway, I did a little research. Accord to the most recent (2006) Press Freedom index by the Reporters Without Borders (http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639), the US is 53rd. It's one of the worst developed nations for press freedom.
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 22/08/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
"Sounds unlikely"? That's a strange way to put it.
Strange? It's called an "understatement".
OK, substitute "strange" with "useless".
Anyway, I did a little research. Accord to the most recent (2006) Press Freedom index by the Reporters Without Borders (http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639), the US is 53rd. It's one of the worst developed nations for press freedom.
That, on the other hand, is "useful".
On 0, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com scribbled:
On 22/08/07, Anthony wikimail@inbox.org wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
"Sounds unlikely"? That's a strange way to put it.
Strange? It's called an "understatement". I suppose it may be a rather English way to put it.
Anyway, I did a little research. Accord to the most recent (2006) Press Freedom index by the Reporters Without Borders (http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639), the US is 53rd. It's one of the worst developed nations for press freedom.
Worst might be exaggerating. Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_ puts the US in the 22nd rank, which may not be great compared to European countries like Finland or Iceland, but is still ahead of others like Japan, Australia, the UK, France, Austria..
-- gwern PRIME Security Passwords KY-75 Time JICA Threat FCA CMS resta
Worst might be exaggerating. Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_ puts the US in the 22nd rank, which may not be great compared to European countries like Finland or Iceland, but is still ahead of others like Japan, Australia, the UK, France, Austria..
I said "*one of* the worst". In the ranking I linked to, all 5 of your examples beat the US, some by a long way. Could you provide a link to your ranking?
On 0, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com scribbled:
Worst might be exaggerating. Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_ puts the US in the 22nd rank, which may not be great compared to European countries like Finland or Iceland, but is still ahead of others like Japan, Australia, the UK, France, Austria..
I said "*one of* the worst". In the ranking I linked to, all 5 of your examples beat the US, some by a long way. Could you provide a link to your ranking?
'Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_' is an unambiguous identifier. I did you the favor of assuming you were smart enough to use Google; but you might take a look at http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=362 and in particular the 'Charts and Graphs' PDF>
-- gwern PRIME Security Passwords KY-75 Time JICA Threat FCA CMS resta
On 22/08/07, Gwern Branwen gwern0@gmail.com wrote:
On 0, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com scribbled:
Worst might be exaggerating. Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_ puts the US in the 22nd rank, which may not be great compared to European countries like Finland or Iceland, but is still ahead of others like Japan, Australia, the UK, France, Austria..
I said "*one of* the worst". In the ranking I linked to, all 5 of your examples beat the US, some by a long way. Could you provide a link to your ranking?
'Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_' is an unambiguous identifier. I did you the favor of assuming you were smart enough to use Google; but you might take a look at http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=362 and in particular the 'Charts and Graphs' PDF>
Thank you for the link. I could have found it myself, but why should I go to the effort of finding the evidence for your arguments? Also, you need to read your own sources better: That survey ranks US as joint 16th.
Thomas Dalton wrote:
On 22/08/07, Gwern Branwen gwern0@gmail.com wrote:
On 0, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com scribbled:
Worst might be exaggerating. Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_ puts the US in the 22nd rank, which may not be great compared to European countries like Finland or Iceland, but is still ahead of others like Japan, Australia, the UK, France, Austria..
I said "*one of* the worst". In the ranking I linked to, all 5 of your examples beat the US, some by a long way. Could you provide a link to your ranking?
'Freedom House's _Freedom of the Press 2007_' is an unambiguous identifier. I did you the favor of assuming you were smart enough to use Google; but you might take a look at http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=362 and in particular the 'Charts and Graphs' PDF>
Thank you for the link. I could have found it myself, but why should I go to the effort of finding the evidence for your arguments? Also, you need to read your own sources better: That survey ranks US as joint 16th.
The relative rankings by Freedom House and Reporters without Borders merit comparison.
Ec
Thomas Dalton wrote:
Strange? It's called an "understatement". I suppose it may be a rather English way to put it.
Anyway, I did a little research. Accord to the most recent (2006) Press Freedom index by the Reporters Without Borders (http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=639), the US is 53rd. It's one of the worst developed nations for press freedom.
Sorry I didn't see the 2006 list.
Ec
Anthony wrote:
On 8/21/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
"Sounds unlikely"? That's a strange way to put it.
See http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15331 They rank the US as 44th.
http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/rapport_en_bd-4.pdf reports on the United States at pp.63-4.
Ec
See http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15331 They rank the US as 44th.
http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/rapport_en_bd-4.pdf reports on the United States at pp.63-4.
Ec
Huh, "DICTATORSHIPS GET TO GRIPS WITH WEB 2.0" I know that Castro like Linux :D but it is... :/
Does anybody want to write a report about "Freedom of the press in 2007" to Wikinews ;) ?
przykuta
On 22/08/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
Freedom of the press? Pretty much anywhere else?
The US is unique in have a free press? That sounds unlikely...
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I think that the point is that it is much different to be an US journalist then a journalist from any other country. In the sense of more respect by authorities.
However, I would like to have, for example, German and Russian accreditations, too :) Such triple combination gives a lot of space, at least in Serbia ;)
BTW, I like this idea. Imagine the situation where you are able to choose a country and say that you are "a journalist form XY country", depending of situation. And WM chapters + WMF + WNF are able to do so unlike the most other news agencies. Even it looks like a joke, it may be useful.
On 8/22/07, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
South Carolina has a low fee for nonprofits, the legal benefits of being in the United States and is very convenient for me being where I currently live :) .
What are the legal benefits of being in the US? And compared to where?
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