I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
Forwarding this to wikien-l which is really the place for this. I would be grateful if the discussion could ensue there, not here.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:21 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
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---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:21 PM Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you can bring this up there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN
On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:
There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you can bring this up there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN
It's already there, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
As Michael Bimmler suggested, I think too that wikien-l would be more appropriate. This is an English Wikipedia issue, not a Wikimedia issue.
BR, Lodewijk
2008/11/26 Michael Everson everson@evertype.com
On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:
There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you can bring this up there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN
It's already there, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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I think perhaps the intent was to get English and Irish editors involved. This has been on and off of the noticeboards at en.wikipedia.org multiple times, through Arbcom at least once, etc.
-Dan On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:25 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
As Michael Bimmler suggested, I think too that wikien-l would be more appropriate. This is an English Wikipedia issue, not a Wikimedia issue.
BR, Lodewijk
2008/11/26 Michael Everson everson@evertype.com
On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:
There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you can bring this up there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN
It's already there, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
I think perhaps the intent was to get English and Irish editors involved. This has been on and off of the noticeboards at en.wikipedia.org multiple times, through Arbcom at least once, etc.
wikipedia-l ?
Its been through arbitration in more than one formulation and discussed to death on all the noticeboards, and there is a dedicated cadre of admins working on it. I don't think even having the discussion on WikiEn-L is likely to benefit the situation. It isn't only our articles that reflect real world disputes - our editors, and the disputes between them, do too. We can't fix the world, and we're unlikely to be able to insulate Wikipedia from it.
Nathan
Amusing. I am strongly reminded of the fights over Macedonia and Liancourt Rocks. Except on those occasions nobody had any illusions that the participants on all side were any more than puerile time-wasters. Just because this lot have greater fluency in the English language doesn't mean that they're any more rational.
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
From: everson@evertype.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:21:20 +0000 Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland
I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
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_________________________________________________________________ Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/
Outside of those involved, I don't think many harbor those same illusions here either.
-Dan On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Christiano Moreschi wrote:
Amusing. I am strongly reminded of the fights over Macedonia and Liancourt Rocks. Except on those occasions nobody had any illusions that the participants on all side were any more than puerile time- wasters. Just because this lot have greater fluency in the English language doesn't mean that they're any more rational.
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
From: everson@evertype.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:21:20 +0000 Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland
I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ foundation-l
Win £1000 John Lewis shopping sprees with BigSnapSearch.com http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I don't think that this is the right list for this matter as this is Wikipedia's problem. That being said, I mostly agree, but would leave ROI where it is as both North and the Republic are states.
________________________________ From: Michael Everson everson@evertype.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:21:20 AM Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland
I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem, but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10 editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding arbitration.
A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]]. That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you would like to take a look, please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island... .
At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
Michael Everson
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