Hoi. When you speak multiple languages, there are things you can express really well in one but not in another language. The notion that all languages are equal is wrong. Consequently there are no "perfect" sub or supersets of languages. When you state that "we should" I would prefer that you speak for yourself because I do not feel included and I could not disagree with you more. When you talk about "noble minded people", you are talking about people who do their own thing. Who volunteer to do their own thing. It is not for you or anyone to determine what they can or cannot do. It does not detract from what you do, it does not make what you do any less relevant. When you argue that we have to abandon certain causes, I would ask you what causes you are involved in are you willing to abandon. If you value the causes that you are involved in too highly to abandon any of them, I ask you why should others. If there are causes that you would abandon, my question would be why are you involved in them in the first place, would it not make sense for you to concentrate on what is more relevant to you? Having abandoned a cause, does it make a difference to you when others persevere with the cause that you abandoned? I have moved on from Wikipedia and largely from Wiktionary. I am now involved in languages, localisations and opening up data. I am concentrating more on the things that are truly valuable and dear to me. The continued success of Betawiki is more relevant to me then having writing about all the fish swimming in the rivers and ponds of the Benelux. You should leave it to the "noble minded" people what they do. When they do a good job they prepare the way for others to follow. They do you know. :) and consequently what you perceive as a problem is no problem. It sorts itself out and in the end it needs neither you not me. Thanks, GerardM On Feb 9, 2008 6:32 PM, Andrew Whitworth <wknight8111(a)gmail.com> wrote: