Pourquoi faut-il une association ?
Why an associaation ?
Yann said
I think that a more progressive start, and therefore starting early is possible. Creating an organisation is necessary. For already one year, I make speeches and talks about Wikipedia without any official mandate, but this is already awkward and it is becoming very inconvenient.
Je pense qu'une croissance progressive est possible, et donc de commencer plut�t. Cr�er une association est n�cessaire. Depuis un an, je fais des conf�rences sur Wikip�dia sans aucun mandat officiel, mais cela est d�j� embarassant, et �a devient vraiment g�nant.
Il est important de signaler Yann, que sur la fr: tout le monde semble te faire confiance pour ta participation dans les multiples conf�rences. Je pense que si tu avais besoin pressant d'un support officiel, Jimbo te l'apporterait publiquement sans probl�me et nous aussi.
Cela �tant, dans l'attente d'une association, et ce pour tous les projects sans association, c'est une des raisons pour lesquelles mettre en place des positions officielles au sein de la foundation am�ricaine est important. Il faut que certains puissent se pr�senter comme porteur de la parole wikipedia officiellement pour notre �volution.
I'd like to remind you Yann, that everyone on fr; trust you for your PR activities. If you had an urgent need for official support, Jimbo would publicly brought it I think.
This said, as long as a project does not have an association, it is very important that the foundation set a collection of official positions and officially declare trust for several users. It is important that we say "we trust these people to speak for Wikimedia" to the outside. Editors should be trusted to speak for wikipedia, the foundation should help and not speak for editors.
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Anthere wrote:
I'd like to remind you Yann, that everyone on fr; trust you for your PR activities. If you had an urgent need for official support, Jimbo would publicly brought it I think.
I agree with this, even though I also support the creation of local associations where a significant group of people desire it.
The issue of official titles is a complete non-issue though. Titles are cheap and easy to generate -- just tell me what you want to be called, and you can be called that.
--Jimbo
Hi,
Le Monday 31 May 2004 11:52, Jimmy Wales a écrit :
Anthere wrote:
I'd like to remind you Yann, that everyone on fr; trust you for your PR activities. If you had an urgent need for official support, Jimbo would publicly brought it I think.
I agree with this, even though I also support the creation of local associations where a significant group of people desire it.
The issue of official titles is a complete non-issue though. Titles are cheap and easy to generate -- just tell me what you want to be called, and you can be called that.
Thanks Jimmy. That's solve part of the problem, but not all.
Because speaking in behalf of Wikimedia (internationally or locally) means not only to have the support of the board and the partipants, but to be able to implement a decision. This can have legal or financial implications. Right now I am more concerned with legal implications.
For example, in my district ("département"), primary and high schools already use Wikipedia has a reference for students and teachers. I would like to start a general promotion campaign to all schools in France, Switzerland, etc. I would like to be able to speak to school and university teachers, directors, librarians, etc., in behalf of Wikimedia. The first questions will be "Who do you represent?" and "Do you have a local organisation?"
Practically this also means to print tee-shirts, leaflets, posters, etc.
--Jimbo
Regards, Yann
--- Yann Forget yann@forget-me.net wrote:
Hi,
Le Monday 31 May 2004 11:52, Jimmy Wales a �crit :
Anthere wrote:
I'd like to remind you Yann, that everyone on
fr;
trust you for your PR activities. If you had an
urgent
need for official support, Jimbo would publicly brought it I think.
I agree with this, even though I also support the
creation of local
associations where a significant group of people
desire it.
The issue of official titles is a complete
non-issue though. Titles
are cheap and easy to generate -- just tell me
what you want to be
called, and you can be called that.
Thanks Jimmy. That's solve part of the problem, but not all.
Because speaking in behalf of Wikimedia (internationally or locally) means not only to have the support of the board and the partipants, but to be able to implement a decision. This can have legal or financial implications. Right now I am more concerned with legal implications.
For example, in my district ("d�partement"), primary and high schools already use Wikipedia has a reference for students and teachers. I would like to start a general promotion campaign to all schools in France, Switzerland, etc. I would like to be able to speak to school and university teachers, directors, librarians, etc., in behalf of Wikimedia. The first questions will be "Who do you represent?" and "Do you have a local organisation?"
Practically this also means to print tee-shirts, leaflets, posters, etc.
--Jimbo
Regards, Yann
Well, after the answer Jimbo gave you "Who do you represent" answer is : I am an official porte-parole from the Wikimedia Foundation
"Do you have a local organisation" answer is : Not yet, but we are working on it. Legal and financial implications must be carefully considered before any official structure is set, to guarantee the proper growth of our projects and make best use of the money offered by our donators.
The tee-shirts and promotional material : I think Erik had some tee-shirts printed or meant to be anyway. Organising full scale promotional material production will always be less expensive because of the large scale. I think Walter from nl also worked on promotional material at some point.
I invite you to make use (and to improve) http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_promotion and in particular http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_T-shirts from cafepress and http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_promotion_material
Perhaps Walter, Erik, Tom and you could set a "special promotion team" and work together to set us a full collection of possibilities and promotional material, from which all wikipedias could benefit.
It is probably unecessary and financially not so interesting that all promotional material is done independently in each country. Better make use of each other ressources, and enlarge scale when possible.
I, for one, would be happy to see these pages improve, and an easy way for each project to quickly have material available.
How to find the money to have this material done : well, ask the Foundation for a grant. Certainly, a certain percentage of future budget can be used to print material, in particular since these ones are sold afterwards (hence, it is lending money). I suspect that a donation call will occur quite soon if I draw correct conclusions from my connection time :-) and discussions on irc. Surely, a little reasonable part of this money may be used for promotion. We may also make an extra call on the french wikipedia for money for promotion for your talks. My little left finger tells me we would get enough of it.
This is not to say we should not have a french association (I think we should), but to say that once the Foundation is properly and efficiently organised, we can also go through the Foundation for some issues.
If I may dare say, you are in particular looking for * support to prove you are not a random speaker * promotional material
The proposition above give you that.
On the other hand, if we hurry to make an association essentially for this * we risk doing mistake in the setting of the association * some one will have to organise a donation system * some one will have to take care of money issue (treasurer) * some one will have to take care of all these organisational points (like having teeshirt printed)
I'd say, not many people are willing to do this. So, what about temporarily making best use of what we have at hand ?
*this* is meant to be a solution *now*.
I'd like us to think globally rather than locally. When there are few people to take care specifically of one issue, and when less money and sweat can be used to produce, we should just team up.
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org