I'm trying to understand what you mean by "GUI messages". You mean customized wiki messages, or the list of messages on the PHP file? Because the MediaWiki namespace is essentially the PHP message file on the wiki, plus any added customizations. The default messages are editable on PHP language files through SVN/bugzilla and on the wiki; the customized messages are editable only on the wiki. The default messages can be modified to reflect the customizations through a not-difficult procedure involving [[Special:Allmessages]]. -----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Darko Bulatovic Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:25 PM To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Adminship tools on Commons Ayelie (Editor at Large) wrote: if agreed. not where Ayelie, The GUI messages can't be edited on project online (at least I am unaware of that - it could be big flaw in system ), only trough php file, Titoxd has posted link to SVN repository of current files. He need to modify that file to make translation without sysop privilege. Personally fact that he didn't do any translations, dose not mean he will not . Everybody need to start some ware, and those files are there for reason so everybody can participate in translation of thing they like not someone like. You should show more friendly approach, and not to sound that dictative - as I am sure that is not your intention. As I sad I understand that you don't wish to give sysop to anybody, but I think that you all lost to much energy on explaining that instead to look for solution that was there all time (and some didn't know about it). And that all leaded to untrusty atmosphere, which is not good. You look to birocracy like it will solve all problems, but it will not. I think that you all lost focus in this. I so also that someone has talked about "earning trust". I think that it is not good to put people in negative position at start, specially that this is Internet and this form of communication leave lot of space for miss-understanding. Please don't judge harsh on me, I just tried to help Darko _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

It's mostly about pages like http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Licenses http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Uploadtext On 4/14/07, Darko Bulatovic <mail(a)itam.ws> wrote:

Titoxd@Wikimedia wrote: MediaWiki is robust but not very fast system, I am not sure now much is impact on performance but surely is better to keep real set of messages in base php file. But in this case it was important public access to the file. I don't understand Hebrew language but i look into file and it was looking like it is fully translated, how good I don't know. regards, Darko

On 4/14/07, Darko Bulatovic <mail(a)itam.ws> wrote: Oh, no no, it wasn't just directed at you, Darko! No judging involved. I admire your efforts to help resolve the situation and help : ) I was just clearing up some things and summarising more lengthily the issues at hand. I certainly didn't mean to sound dictative, but rather was as I said outlining the issues at hand; this has been a rather long discussion for us and the same issues seem to keep cropping up without being addressed or understood by all. At first we did try to look for solutions and suggested a few, but the issue of to admin or not to admin kept cropping up and the solutions were more or less pushed to the wayside (or rejected immediately and all together). Yes, I took the time to explain, but that is 1) because I am not a specialist in the wikimedia and tech side of things and so am more familiar with our policies and process; and 2) because I have a fanatical and arguably unnecessary urge to outline and summarise things when they get too complicated or issues are mixed up/confused. I don't believe I mentioned trust in my message, but that is something that a user has as a whole, no matter where they come from. Obviously Yoni is trusted on he.wikipedia and we have no reason on Commons to *not* trust him; the issue is one of the work he has done on the Commons project and how he has contributed there, as well as how he works with the community and his understanding of our policies and guidelines. As adminship is not required to translate what Yoni wants to translate, whether because some pages are unprotected or because it can be done through talk pages, there is no reason to give him admin privileges on Commons when he has not shown a need for them beyond easier access to a few protected pages. I don't think it is excessive bureaucracy; it is about the community's decision on the candidacy of one person to be an administrator. We were not negative at first, and explained, and voted based on Yoni's contributions just as we do for every candidate - and Commons RfAs usually go quite smoothly compared to en.wikipedia ones, for example. When issues were brought up we made gentle suggestions and were patient. Personally it is how long this has gone on for and the repeated bringing up of things that have already been explained, as well as the refusal to accept the consensus of the community, that has forced me to be more to-the-point than I usually would be. I did not mean to offend anyone or sound harsh, and please accept my most sincere apologies if it came across that way! I think that Yoni would make a good administrator some day, as he is on he.wikipedia; perhaps after working on translating some non-protected pages and getting more involved in images and copyright (as that is what Commons is all about). If we had partial adminship for one reason only perhaps he would have been granted it, for editing protected pages. Unfortunately, though, that is not the case and we must look at the entire package when deciding who we will instate as an admin. All the best, Ayelie

It's possible, yes, it involves a fairly quick edit to the LocalSettings.php file for the wiki in question. There has never been a consensus to do so on any wikimedia wiki that I'm aware of, but it can definitely be done.

On 4/14/07, Ayelie (Editor at Large) <ayelie.at.large(a)gmail.com> wrote: The sysop topic is being discussed since that's what he's complaining about. The opening mail of this thread was: ::Hi, ::I feel my request to use the admin tools on Commons was unfairly rejected because of many many reasons. I would like to appeal this unfair decision (...) I request this because I will not accept this kind of behavior (...) Can you please advise to whom I should speak to? So yes, this thread is about he complaining that didn't get sysop and he feels he's entitled to it (as he expressed on some other post). This thread is not about translations