(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
Yeah!
regards,
southpark
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I tend to agree - I also think these tools present new opportunities for how to create program guides for events like Wikimania that transform into conference yearbooks by including videos from the event in the weeks following. Perhaps releasing a developer handbook that updates every month or so (or maybe when a new version is released) to help with those education/outreach efforts, etc. Having a wBook open on my iPad with videos, audio, slides and documentation on how to use something like ResourceLoader would be very cool and helpful.
In general, I agree these tools help set standards for interactive e-books (especially e-textbooks) supported by HTML5 that - while initially geared towards Apple platforms - is done in a way they will no doubt be made available and replicated on Android, BlackBerry, Windows Mobile, etc. pretty quick.
If this latest development means that education publications are transformed in the way that music was transformed by iTunes - I think it would be wise to investigate ways to utilize - or at least support - these new standards and tools.
-greg aka varnent
------- Gregory Varnum Lead, Aequalitas Project Lead Administrator, WikiQueer Founding Principal, VarnEnt @GregVarnum fb.com/GregVarnum
On Jan 20, 2012, at 11:23 AM, Dirk Franke wrote:
Yeah!
regards,
southpark
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Magnus Manske <magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach taken by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure that as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I'm confused by what you mean by "walled garden". If this were the same as the App Store model where they have a custom iOS app format and their store is the only place to get it - that would make sense to me. That doesn't seem to be the case here..
My understanding was the ebooks created with iBook Author works in any ebooks store that supports HTML5 standards. I've been testing some ebooks we threw together on lots of devices (almost all non-Apple) with no problems. We've even turned some of them into interactive web pages.
I haven't heard of this software breaking the current standard so much as further enabling HTML5 within it - but I could be wrong.
-greg
On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach taken by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure that as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Hoi, The EULA currently in use prohibits the use of material that is offered anywhere except in the Apple store. They have also broken the mold of the standard. Consequently adopting the Apple model would technically support Apple devices.
Both reasons are enough not to use Apple at all in an education setting and for material available under a free license. Thanks, Gerard
On 25 January 2012 23:12, Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.com wrote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "walled garden". If this were the same as the App Store model where they have a custom iOS app format and their store is the only place to get it - that would make sense to me. That doesn't seem to be the case here..
My understanding was the ebooks created with iBook Author works in any ebooks store that supports HTML5 standards. I've been testing some ebooks we threw together on lots of devices (almost all non-Apple) with no problems. We've even turned some of them into interactive web pages.
I haven't heard of this software breaking the current standard so much as further enabling HTML5 within it - but I could be wrong.
-greg
On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach
taken
by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure
that
as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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I think the iBooks Author license agreement allows distribution outside Apple store, just not sale outside the Apple store. So in some vaguely nefarious was I suppose it's akin to the NC side of a CC license. Here's the relevant text:
B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;
(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.
For those who care, there's an interesting meta analysis of the standards and legal issues at http://daringfireball.net/2012/01/ima_set_it_straight_this_watergate.
-s
On Jan 25, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, The EULA currently in use prohibits the use of material that is offered anywhere except in the Apple store. They have also broken the mold of the standard. Consequently adopting the Apple model would technically support Apple devices.
Both reasons are enough not to use Apple at all in an education setting and for material available under a free license. Thanks, Gerard
On 25 January 2012 23:12, Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.com wrote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "walled garden". If this were the same as the App Store model where they have a custom iOS app format and their store is the only place to get it - that would make sense to me. That doesn't seem to be the case here..
My understanding was the ebooks created with iBook Author works in any ebooks store that supports HTML5 standards. I've been testing some ebooks we threw together on lots of devices (almost all non-Apple) with no problems. We've even turned some of them into interactive web pages.
I haven't heard of this software breaking the current standard so much as further enabling HTML5 within it - but I could be wrong.
-greg
On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach
taken
by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure
that
as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Hi Gerard,
if you read my original email, I do emphasise Apple's "walled garden", and my proposal is specifically *not* to put our contents there. Rather, I would like us to take advantage of the breach in the "educational material" monopol that Apple will undoubtedly create, by generating our own pure-HTML5 books (which I call "wBooks" to differentiate from Apples "iBooks"), which would work on all tablets (and probably phones), not just the iPad.
Cheers, Magnus
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 10:42 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, The EULA currently in use prohibits the use of material that is offered anywhere except in the Apple store. They have also broken the mold of the standard. Consequently adopting the Apple model would technically support Apple devices.
Both reasons are enough not to use Apple at all in an education setting and for material available under a free license. Thanks, Gerard
On 25 January 2012 23:12, Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.com wrote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "walled garden". If this were the same as the App Store model where they have a custom iOS app format and their store is the only place to get it - that would make sense to me. That doesn't seem to be the case here..
My understanding was the ebooks created with iBook Author works in any ebooks store that supports HTML5 standards. I've been testing some ebooks we threw together on lots of devices (almost all non-Apple) with no problems. We've even turned some of them into interactive web pages.
I haven't heard of this software breaking the current standard so much as further enabling HTML5 within it - but I could be wrong.
-greg
On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach
taken
by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure
that
as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
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In fact Apple took the standard epub format and added their own proprietary elements, thus creating a new proprietary "ibooks" format. The new format will only be readable with the iBooks 2 software which is confined to iOS. The format specs are not published either, so I won't hold my breath for compatible readers from other companies.
Regards, -- Orionist
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.comwrote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "walled garden". If this were the same as the App Store model where they have a custom iOS app format and their store is the only place to get it - that would make sense to me. That doesn't seem to be the case here..
My understanding was the ebooks created with iBook Author works in any ebooks store that supports HTML5 standards. I've been testing some ebooks we threw together on lots of devices (almost all non-Apple) with no problems. We've even turned some of them into interactive web pages.
I haven't heard of this software breaking the current standard so much as further enabling HTML5 within it - but I could be wrong.
-greg
On Jan 25, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, I think we should not support Apple in breaking the standard and in preventing us from using our work anywhere else. We take pride in being freely licensed and there is no excuse for the walled garden approach
taken
by Apple. There is also no excuse for us endorsing this behaviour.
Obviously as what we do is freely licensed or public domain you can do whatever as long as the license requirements are maintained. I am sure
that
as a consequence you cannot legally publish in Apple's walled garden. I hate to see anything done in this area that is endorsed by the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks, Gerard
On 20 January 2012 10:46, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com
wrote:
(This mail is focused on books, but the topic is of more general interest IMHO, thus foundation-l)
Hi all,
I just saw the "iBooks Author" news:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/19/a-closer-look-at-ibooks-author-textbooks...
Of course, all these pretty books will be only available in the Apple paywalled garden.
So I thought: As they use basically HTML5 (plus a few proprietary libraries), could we produce such interactive, tablet/phone-enabled e-books ("wBooks" as in "Wikimedia":-) from free content? I believe the answer is yes, though it might be quite a push technologically (just to be clear, I am speaking of the books here, not of the authoring software).
Also: Should we? I believe the answer is yes as well, for two reasons. One, Apples work here might (yet again) set a new standard, which means everything falling short of that standard will be neglected by the target audience, which runs counter to our declared goal of disseminating free knowledge; standing still might well mean falling behind. Another reason is the opportunity that Apple creates for us here: Once such e-books become accepted as general teaching tools in schools, it will be much easier to switch from Apple-only, costly books to run-everywhere, free books; they might just win the "technology battle" for us.
What do you think?
Cheers, Magnus
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Am 26. Januar 2012 08:47 schrieb Orionist orion.ist@gmail.com:
In fact Apple took the standard epub format and added their own proprietary elements, thus creating a new proprietary "ibooks" format. The new format will only be readable with the iBooks 2 software which is confined to iOS. The format specs are not published either, so I won't hold my breath for compatible readers from other companies.
What's more, the iBook Authoring software is only available for Max OS X Lion. It does not run on any other platform.
I second your suggestion to make our content available in free ebook formats.
Regards, Jürgen.
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