Harel;
What would it take to get you guys to come?
----- Original Message ---- From: Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 10:32:10 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] FYI: Welcome to this years Wikimania site: Egypt, the land with cultur ministers with special taste in history, culture and all the good things
Let's put things straight. The Arabs in Israel usually read in Arabic. Whatever translations of Arabic (specifically Egyptian) literature into Hebrew there are, are mainly for the benefit of the Israeli Jewish reader. These books are normally translated by Israeli publishers on their own initiative, out of commercial reasons.
But all this is beyond the point. The quote attributed to the Egyptian minister is not a one-of-a-kind occurrence. There are some groups in Egypt vehemently opposed to the peace treaty with Israel (from 1979!). Surprisingly, some professional organizations such as the writers guild are among the most radical in this regard.
It is a sad fact of life that Israel has a "cold peace" with Egypt. Few people travel back and forth. The current formal recommendation of the Israeli Anti-Terror council is for all Israeli nationals to "avoid all visits to Egypt, and if they are already there, to leave Egypt immediately", because of "a very high concrete threat" (http://www.nsc.gov.il/NSCWeb/Templates/country.aspx?countryId=42, in Hebrew only).
We (over at Wikimedia Israel) had some optimistic plans to come to Alexandria in big numbers (after all, it's a neighboring country). Sadly, I don't see that happening.
Harel
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:08 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
Also, he talks about restoring historic synagogues and the Cairo Geniza. I think they're also something about translating Egyptian books into Hebrew for the benefit of Arabs in Israel, but the translation isn't very good at that point.
I thought Naghib Mahfouz's books have actually been translated into Hebrew; if they have not been, they should.
Cheers Yaroslav
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It's a matter of convincing people to disregard their own government's formal travel advisory (which as I said is very clear about Egypt at this time; would Americans for example travel to a country that the State Department strongly advises to avoid?). I know of two local wikipedians who are still planning to go. We tried organizing a bigger group at our local village pump but people are naturally rather hesitant to go to a place where they (justifiably?) feel they might be at risk, or just feel very uncomfortable or unwanted. Israel's biggest newspaper Yedioth Ahronot runs an article today about an organized tour to Egypt of Israelis of Egyptian origin, which got a very "cold shoulder" from Egyptian authorities.
I don't want to turn this into a political debate about the intricacies of the Israeli-Egyptian cold peace, though. I just wanted to put the Egyptian minister's expressions in context.
I still hope to make it to Alexandria.
Harel
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Harel;
What would it take to get you guys to come?
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 1:51 AM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
It's a matter of convincing people to disregard their own government's formal travel advisory (which as I said is very clear about Egypt at this time; would Americans for example travel to a country that the State Department strongly advises to avoid?). I know of two local wikipedians who are still planning to go. We tried organizing a bigger group at our local village pump but people are naturally rather hesitant to go to a place where they (justifiably?) feel they might be at risk, or just feel very uncomfortable or unwanted. Israel's biggest newspaper Yedioth Ahronot runs an article today about an organized tour to Egypt of Israelis of Egyptian origin, which got a very "cold shoulder" from Egyptian authorities.
I don't want to turn this into a political debate about the intricacies of the Israeli-Egyptian cold peace, though. I just wanted to put the Egyptian minister's expressions in context.
I still hope to make it to Alexandria.
Harel
Just to be clear, you're saying that Israel has advised citizens not to travel to Egypt? This makes sense, but I think I misread it and got confused. Are there any other major countries who advise their citizens not to travel to Egypt?
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Harel Cain harel.cain@gmail.com wrote:
It's a matter of convincing people to disregard their own government's formal travel advisory (which as I said is very clear about Egypt at this time; would Americans for example travel to a country that the State Department strongly advises to avoid?). I know of two local wikipedians who are still planning to go. We tried organizing a bigger group at our local village pump but people are naturally rather hesitant to go to a place where they (justifiably?) feel they might be at risk, or just feel very uncomfortable or unwanted. Israel's biggest newspaper Yedioth Ahronot runs an article today about an organized tour to Egypt of Israelis of Egyptian origin, which got a very "cold shoulder" from Egyptian authorities.
I don't want to turn this into a political debate about the intricacies of the Israeli-Egyptian cold peace, though. I just wanted to put the Egyptian minister's expressions in context.
I still hope to make it to Alexandria.
Harel
Harel,
Thank you for the information. When was this latest warning posted? (sadly, my Hebrew is lacking). As you say, originally I thought there were plans for many people from Wikimedia Israel to come over, and of course that was one of the hopes for having it in Egypt -- that many people from the region could attend. It will be really sad if you are unable to :(
-- phoebe
Phoebe and others,
I'm not sure about the exact date when this travel advisory was posted. The only sure thing is that it's in the aftermath of the "tearing down" of the border between the Gaza strip and the Sinai peninsula [in recent months], after which, supposedly, many terrorists are now out and about in Sinai and possibly in the whole of Egypt.
As I'm not an expert and don't want to mess things up where I shouldn't, here's a literal translation of the travel advisory. You should understand that threats to Israelis do not necessarily mean threats to Westerners. It is certainly NOT my goal to scare people away from Wikimania 2008!!
<begin quote> 1. Of late, terror threats in the Sinai have increased substantially. Terror activists in the Sinai are seeking to kidnap Israelis and transfer them to the Gaza strip [to be held hostage - H.C.]. The open border between the Gaza strip and the Sinai facilitates the movement of terror activists to and from the Gaza strip. 2. For a long while now, there are substantial threats to the wellbeing of Israeli travelers visiting Egypt. The level of threat: a very high concrete threat. The advisory of the Counter-Terror Staff [a department of Israel's National Security Council]: to avoid all visits to Egypt whatsoever and leave the country immediately. <end quote>
Thank you for the information. When was this latest warning posted? (sadly, my Hebrew is lacking). As you say, originally I thought there were plans for many people from Wikimedia Israel to come over, and of course that was one of the hopes for having it in Egypt -- that many people from the region could attend. It will be really sad if you are unable to :(
harel
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I know it's not the same thing (but I had to say it), but I'd have absolutely no problem visiting Cuba in spite of my State department's objections...
Cary
Harel Cain wrote: | It's a matter of convincing people to disregard their own government's | formal travel advisory (which as I said is very clear about Egypt at | this time; would Americans for example travel to a country that the | State Department strongly advises to avoid?). I know of two local | wikipedians who are still planning to go. We tried organizing a bigger | group at our local village pump but people are naturally rather | hesitant to go to a place where they (justifiably?) feel they might be | at risk, or just feel very uncomfortable or unwanted. | Israel's biggest newspaper Yedioth Ahronot runs an article today about | an organized tour to Egypt of Israelis of Egyptian origin, which got a | very "cold shoulder" from Egyptian authorities. | | I don't want to turn this into a political debate about the | intricacies of the Israeli-Egyptian cold peace, though. I just wanted | to put the Egyptian minister's expressions in context. | | I still hope to make it to Alexandria. | | Harel | | On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote: |> Harel; |> |> What would it take to get you guys to come? | | _______________________________________________ | foundation-l mailing list | foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org | Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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